Winter Rules

In Delc's original statement he said "...lift, clean and place..." so why are prattling on about 'dropping'. If when, in the process of PLACEing you're ball you think it will move surely a modicum of common sense says you don't let go of the ball you simply adjust the spot to a place were it wont roll - within 6inches of course.
 
drdel said:
In Delc's original statement he said "...lift, clean and place..." so why are prattling on about 'dropping'. If when, in the process of PLACEing you're ball you think it will move surely a modicum of common sense says you don't let go of the ball you simply adjust the spot to a place were it wont roll - within 6inches of course.
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Er....'Placing' was only mentioned in passing. It's the 'dropping in the rough' from a plugged ball that is being discussed.

delc said:
Our winter rules allow relief for a plugged ball anywhere through the green. On closely mown areas you can lift clean and place within 6" NNTH, or in the rough you drop as close as possible to the original position NNTH. Would I be entitled to relief again if the ball rolls back into the pitch mark?

Also can I repair the pitchmark before placing or dropping, or would that infringe Rule 13-2?
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Foxholer - If you're 'dropping' in the "rough" the chance of there being an area that could be defined and called a 'pitch' mark is highly improbable. Similarly, unless you are several metres tall the likelihood of your ball becoming embedded (as defined by the rules) from a simple horizontal arm drop is also high improbable.

So I think in practise, under winter conditions - Placing on a closely mown can be done without expectation of the need to replace. Furthermore, taking a drop under a winter rule from 'not closely mown' rough is sufficiently accommodated under the normal rules for taking a drop just without the incurrence of the penalty.
 
drdel said:
Foxholer - If you're 'dropping' in the "rough" the chance of there being an area that could be defined and called a 'pitch' mark is highly improbable. Similarly, unless you are several metres tall the likelihood of your ball becoming embedded (as defined by the rules) from a simple horizontal arm drop is also high improbable.

So I think in practise, under winter conditions - Placing on a closely mown can be done without expectation of the need to replace. Furthermore, taking a drop under a winter rule from 'not closely mown' rough is sufficiently accommodated under the normal rules for taking a drop just without the incurrence of the penalty.
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In practice, it is very easy to think of a ball embedded on a slope on which it is very difficult to place it without its rolling away (grass face of a bunker for instance) and there are plenty of boggy places in the rough on many courses where a ball could embed from a drop. As usual, if there is a possibility of something happening - even if improbable - the Rules need to cover how to proceed.
 
drdel said:
Foxholer - If you're 'dropping' in the "rough" the chance of there being an area that could be defined and called a 'pitch' mark is highly improbable. Similarly, unless you are several metres tall the likelihood of your ball becoming embedded (as defined by the rules) from a simple horizontal arm drop is also high improbable.

So I think in practise, under winter conditions - Placing on a closely mown can be done without expectation of the need to replace. Furthermore, taking a drop under a winter rule from 'not closely mown' rough is sufficiently accommodated under the normal rules for taking a drop just without the incurrence of the penalty.
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If you are dropping in the rough, the Local Rule permitting relief for an embedded ball through the green must be in force. This suggests that the committee has determined that certain areas of that course are likely to give rise to a ball being embedded.
Although such conditions are less likely on a links course, the probability on a UK parkland course in the winter or a far eastern course in the monsoon season is very high. Certainly at the moment, on my course, balls would plug if dropped from about 3', parts are so mushy.

Often the area is not really 'rough' in the sense that the grass is long. More likely areas of mud caused by heavy foot traffic somewhere off the closely mown fairway.

Delc of course was not describing a dropped ball being plugged but a ball that was being dropped after being plugged and then rolling into the original pitchmark or 'plug hole'.

The decision is however, about dropped balls plugging directly and was introduced no doubt as a result of this happening fairly frequently.
 
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drdel said:
Foxholer - If you're 'dropping' in the "rough" the chance of there being an area that could be defined and called a 'pitch' mark is highly improbable. Similarly, unless you are several metres tall the likelihood of your ball becoming embedded (as defined by the rules) from a simple horizontal arm drop is also high improbable.

So I think in practise, under winter conditions - Placing on a closely mown can be done without expectation of the need to replace. Furthermore, taking a drop under a winter rule from 'not closely mown' rough is sufficiently accommodated under the normal rules for taking a drop just without the incurrence of the penalty.
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Remember that 'rough' is any area that is not 'closely mown', so not difficult at present. There is always a tendency to consider 'rough' as the 4-6 inch stuff where you might have a point, but it's still quite possible. And as Colin posted, if it can happen, the Rules have to cater for it as if most certainly will happen - surprisingly often during one of Delc's rounds! :whistle:
 
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If the grass is short as you say it might be why on earth would you choose to take your drop anywhere near the 'pitch' mark. Surely you'd select the best area you could within the legal zone.
 
drdel said:
If the grass is short as you say it might be why on earth would you choose to take your drop anywhere near the 'pitch' mark. Surely you'd select the best area you could within the legal zone.
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What do you believe the legal zone is?
Because the Local Rule says it must be dropped as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole.
 
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drdel said:
^^^ Rule 20, c (v).
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Rule 20-2c(v), assuming that's the one you're referring to, does not tell us where we must drop the ball when taking relief from an embedded ball. Rule 25-2 does that and states that the ball, if relief is taken, has to be dropped as near as possible to where it lay. If relief from an embedded ball is extended to through the green by a Local Rule, that Local Rule will say the same. The "legal zone" is very small indeed and the possibility of the ball rolling back in to its pitch mark very real.
 
Colin L said:
Rule 20-2c(v), assuming that's the one you're referring to, does not tell us where we must drop the ball when taking relief from an embedded ball. Rule 25-2 does that and states that the ball, if relief is taken, has to be dropped as near as possible to where it lay. If relief from an embedded ball is extended to through the green by a Local Rule, that Local Rule will say the same. The "legal zone" is very small indeed and the possibility of the ball rolling back in to its pitch mark very real.
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In which case you act as normal under the condition when the dropped ball rolls and is still not in a position of relief - mark first the point of contact and place the ball there.
 
Just to refine that, if your ball rolled back into its pitch mark, you would re-drop and only if it again went into its pitch mark would you place the ball where it struck the course for the second time.
 
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