Winter Rules

[Bythesea]

At my club for years we have included in our W/ Rules putting with the pin in (to protect the area round the pin) we now have been told that this is against the rule of golf and should result in a penalty. The rule, is you must either remove the pin or have it attended, you cannot make a local rule that subverts the rules of golf. It seems to me to be a bit over the top to not be able to protect your course when adverse conditions apply.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

If it isn't a qualifying competition I can't see that it matters..?

 

[chrisd]

Welcome to the forum !

It is a rule of golf that you cant agree to waive a rule of golf so you cant agree to leave the flag in whilst putting and I have to admit that I cant really see the benefit of leaving it in. You still have to go to the hole to get it out and it takes longer to fish round for a ball when the flag is still in, I always think



Chris

 

[CMAC]

At my club for years we have included in our W/ Rules putting with the pin in (to protect the area round the pin) we now have been told that this is against the rule of golf and should result in a penalty. The rule, is you must either remove the pin or have it attended, you cannot make a local rule that subverts the rules of golf. It seems to me to be a bit over the top to not be able to protect your course when adverse conditions apply.

cant you just lay the flag down properly without damaging the area around the pin, it's not hard really

 

[StrangelyBrown]

cant you just lay the flag down properly without damaging the area around the pin, it's not hard really

Maybe it's been suggested to keep the flag in so that there is less footfall around the cup, rather than because the flag gets dropped and tears up the green?

That's how I read it anyhoos

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Maybe it's been suggested to keep the flag in so that there is less footfall around the cup, rather than because the flag gets dropped and tears up the green?

That's how I read it anyhoos

Thats my understanding too, we use this rule outside of comps, not sure its entirely useful but doesnt bother me.

 

[anotherdouble]

But as ChrisD states you will still have footfall getting the ball out of the hole whether the flag is in or not. I do understand that the footfall around the hole could be reduced by not removing the flag in the 1st place. Has the OP's club not thought of winter greens

 

[MashieNiblick]

We have this in place for friendly matches. It isn't actually a local rule as such just a request. The idea is to minimise wear around the hole by avoiding the necessity of attending the flag.

Just to clarify, as I understand it, it is not against the rules per se to putt with the flag unattended. However if your ball then hits the flag it is a 2 stroke penalty or loss of hole - Rule 17-3(c).

Never yet seen the flag hit while playing this way as we usually only leave the flag in for really long putts and quite frankly we aren't that good (or lucky) and with winter greens it is doubly unlikely. Hmmm... perhaps we should carefully examine the line from all sides, not just have a quick look from behind.

 

[backwoodsman]

Our winter "agreement" (ie rather than rule) is the other way round - ie that you can't have the flag tended. Flag stays in until someone requests it out - then it stays out until the hole is finished.

 

[Region3]

Our winter "agreement" (ie rather than rule) is the other way round - ie that you can't have the flag tended. Flag stays in until someone requests it out - then it stays out until the hole is finished.

That's how I read the OP. Not that you have to leave it in, but just that it can't be attended so saving the area around the hole from having someone stand there for however long it takes for the player to putt.

 

[Phil2511]

One of ours at the minute is if there is water in the bunker lift out and free drop. Even when there is plenty of water free space in the bunkers. Apparently this also includes ice and could be the size of a tea tray you get a free drop.

I was out playing with the Pro from the shop who is in our winter league also and he said oh ice doesn't count as if it was melted it wouldnt be a puddle as the rest of the bunker was ok, and so I played from the bunker. But the following day was out marking for a mate on Council and the Captain and the Captain took the free drop from the very same bunker and same amount of ice.

Turns out everyone has been doing this except myself and the pro.
Hence the reason for so many high scores that week.

I don't personally see why if there is sandy puddle/ice free areas why the ball cannot be dropped there. But as everyone else is dropping out I am doing the same to keep myself on the same level playing field as them.

 

[rosecott]

One of ours at the minute is if there is water in the bunker lift out and free drop. Even when there is plenty of water free space in the bunkers. Apparently this also includes ice and could be the size of a tea tray you get a free drop.

Someone needs to tell your Captain and committee that copies of the rules of golf are free from the R&A.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Re Getting free relief from Bunkers, here's what the R&A say

Decision 33-8/27 Local Rule Providing Relief Without Penalty from Bunker Filled with Casual Water

"Q. May a Committee make a Local Rule allowing a player to drop out of any bunker filled with casual water, without penalty, contrary to Rule 25-1b(ii)?

A. No. The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green, as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b.

However, in exceptional circumstances, where certain specific bunkers are completely flooded and there is no reasonable likelihood of the bunkers drying up during the round, the Committee may introduce a Local Rule providing relief without penalty from specific bunkers. Prior to introducing such a Local Rule, the Committee must be convinced that such exceptional circumstances exist and that providing relief without penalty from specific bunkers is more appropriate than simply applying Rule 25-1b(ii). If the Committee elects to introduce a Local Rule, the following wording is suggested:

"The flooded bunker on [insert location of bunker; e.g. left of 5th green] is ground under repair. If a player’s ball lies in that bunker or if that bunker interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing and the player wishes to take relief, he must take relief outside the bunker, without penalty, in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i). All other bunkers on the course, regardless of whether they contain water, maintain their status as hazards and the Rules apply accordingly.”
​

Whilst checking R&A site for local rules on water filled bunkers I also came across this

Decision 33-8/10 Local Rule Prohibiting Removal of Flagstick

"Q. May a Committee make a Local Rule for winter-time play prohibiting removal of the flagstick? The purpose would be to reduce traffic around the hole in the winter when the putting greens are very soft.

A. No. Such a Local Rule would modify the Rules of Golf."

Which I guess is why we simply have a request that we don't attend the flag, i.e. leave it in or take it out and why this doesn't apply in comps.

 

[Pants]

And after overnight rain, just how many committee members are going to get to the course early to inspect the bunkers, make a decision, and post it in time before the medal starts?

Hurrumppph. Sorry, not a good round this morning.