Winter League Bias??

[jimjoachim]

I've recently moved golf clubs and signed up for the Winter League.

The league operates on a 4BBB matchplay over 12 holes with 60% handicap allowance which is exactly as you would expect (12/18 * 90%) in a normal circumstances.

However, in the winter with the course being shorter and ball in hand through the green it plays quite a bit easier.
I don't know this for a fact but I suspect that this makes it relatively easier for higher handicappers??

My partner in the League is a scratch golfer and we are playing pretty well but have lost our first 3 matches.
Last weekend we were giving 13 shots over 12 holes to one of the guys and 9 to the other.
The higher man parred the 3 par 3s which were each 20/30 yards shorter than they are in the summer.
We also halved the SI1 hole when his birdie was matched by their 5 net 3

Honestly can't see where a Win is going to come from for us.:mmm:

 

[shortgame]

Slightly I think, depending on the course

In addition to your points, less rough obviously favours the less accurate players

Also, moving to forward tees mean not only shorter tee shots/carries but can sometimes also mean easier angles, less need to shape the ball etc

Not sure if you can quantify the benefits this gives high handicappers over lower ones but it may be enough to afford a small advantage

 

[duncan mackie]

Not all high handicappers have the same characteristics - but the biggest issue is that low handicappers tend to be able to control their shots around the green and sink more putts. Winter green conditions can be a bigger leveller than distance (there are short and long courses out there year round).

You need to make more birdies but i agree its more likely that, on balance, they will make more net ones.

Important to remember that winter leagues are competitive fun; take them seriously at your peril!

 

[Capella]

I'd say it depends on why someone is a high handicapper. If it is because they do hit it shorter, for example because they are seniors or just less athletic, then I think yes, winter conditions might favour them a bit. If they are physically able to hit the ball a long way but suffer from a lack of control, then I doubt winter conditions will do them any good. Me, personally, I do profit a lot from playing to winter greens (which, with one exception, are way shorter than the regular greens on our course). On the other hand, playing to the regular greens in winter conditions is much much harder form me than it is in summer, because even slightly fat shots are punished so much more and I really need the additional roll on dry fairways to get anywhere close to a green in reg. And the rough is a lot rougher and I find wet bunkers next to unplayable, so I do get punished for bad shots a lot more than during summer. So it depends. Yes, if winter greens are in play and the course gets a lot shorter through that, I'd say I as a short hitting high handicapper profit from that. If it is just generally miserable, but the holes stay more or less the same, I suffer more than a more experienced player.

 

[Crow]

I agree that course conditions will make the course easier for the higher handicap player, to list a few possible reasons:

• Shorter course making unreachable holes reachable for the shorter hitter
• Temporary greens with not such good surfaces cancelling the advantage of the better putter.
• Frozen fairways giving huge run out, even for mis-hit shots.

Our course acknowledges this and our Winter League is played off 3/4 handicap. (Don't say it out loud though or the CONGU police will be out in force)
We get a good spread of winners across the handicap spectrum.

But as duncan said, Winter League is more about getting out and enjoying winter golf than a serious competition.

 

[clubchamp98]

Giving to many shots away in winter it's hard to enjoy it.
Biggist prob for me is winter greens are usually short of green so no bunkers to play over / out of.
Most low men have good short game / putting but this goes out the window on winter greens.
If you play just try to enjoy it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Winter leagues are mainly set up for a bit of competition over winter months and to also help people meet new people and play with people they wouldn’t normally - it’s supposed to be a bit of fun and social.

It’s a shame when I suspect at all clubs it turns into something more and becomes far too serious - all courses will be shorten whilst greenkeepers look at tees or greens and shorten fairways so at times the course plays a little easier for all.

But I never get the whinging at the HC s - it happens at our place with always the same people complaining that they can never win it because of high HCs - total rubbish as the last couple of years it’s been won by pairs of single figure HC and cat 1 players because whilst it plays short for higher HC who get pats easier the lower HC guys get birdies easier - it balances itself out and I always tell the guys who complain the answer is simple - play better themselves.

A core of the long standing members who have played in it for years have blamed it moving to 90% HC and are not playing in it this year- they have created their own comp and using 3/4 HC difference and Max 18 HC etc - I did ask what they would do when they don’t win that one as well.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Have to feel for the OP and the set up of the comp and the layout of the course definitely seems to have a bias. However surely getting out and playing is what it's about. Out of interest can the OP confirm what the winning handicaps were last year

 

[NWJocko]

Think its dependent on the course you play and the players themselves......

We play off different winter tees at my home course that makes the course easier for average distance (230 or so carry) drivers as you can carry all of the bunkers that are 250-odd carry off the back tees. Some of my mates are off c.10-20 odd but can drive it over the trouble so they do make some silly scores over winter, that said it makes it easier (or should in theory!!) for me too.

Winter golf isn't serious to me though, we don't have a league just have a chuck in for a quid or 2 and I don't mind as getting out for a swing and a laugh is worth it for me.

 

[garyinderry]

I honestly think winter golf tends to be that bit easier across the board for all players. The course tends to lack any run but hitting greens is like throwing darts.

Couple that with the fact we are lift clean and place through the green. When I can fix my lie before chipping or pitching I would estimate I make about 25% more than I normally would.

The only real sucker is the rough isn't being cut so quite long and lush in places. Couple that with plugged balls then it can be very easy to lose tee shots you wouldn't normally lose in summer.

Throw in a cold 2 club wind though and it can be hard work. :mmm:

 

[FairwayDodger]

Often play "the perch" during winter. Shorter holes, winter greens and frozen ground is a great leveler between high and low handicaps. Unfortunately we still play full handicap which makes it a weekly donation for me!

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Our winter league is a round robin pairs match play where you partner everyone in your division once.
It's a good reason to get out an play during the winter months as well as some light hearted fun.

 

[patricks148]

We don't have any winter comps as such, but once we go onto the winter course we get a load of guys turn up in the roll up groups we have as the course in almost 700 yards shorter by December, though to March. One of the Sunday groups has half handicap for those months

 

[jim8flog]

I know playing to my handicap is very much based upon how good a putter I am. Once we go to temporary greens I lose that 'advantage' over higher players with a higher handicap.

It is noticeable that when we have temp greens the winning scores (stableford) often get a lot better in the lower division.

 

[shortgame]

Good point, winter greens can certainly be a bit of a leveller

 

[jimjoachim]

Have to feel for the OP and the set up of the comp and the layout of the course definitely seems to have a bias. However surely getting out and playing is what it's about. Out of interest can the OP confirm what the winning handicaps were last year

We have played the defending champions in week 2. They were off 20 and 17 and they were very solid golfers just age has taken distance away from them.

Personally, I'm new to the club and enjoying getting to know new people every week. Its been fun regardless of the result each week.
I'm all for not taking it too seriously and just enjoying it for what it is. Although feel the handicap system lets us down a little here.

My old couple was individual 9 hole stableford with best 5 scores out of team of 7 counting each week. They played off 3/8ths handicap. Ironically there was a +1 golfer whose handicap actually went up in that method. So there's prob no correct answer...

 

[The Autumn Wind]

As long as my 4 handicap partner can hit a few more fairways than he did in the Daily Mail Foursomes, I'm expecting us to be very competitive in the Winter League this season. Looking forward to it !

 

[jimjoachim]

UPDATE:

5 matches into the winter league and we are still winless.
This week we had to give guys 14 and 13 shots respectively over the 12 holes.
They managed 7 net birdies

 

[shortgame]

UPDATE:

5 matches into the winter league and we are still winless.
This week we had to give guys 14 and 13 shots respectively over the 12 holes.
They managed 7 net birdies

Ouch

 

[patricks148]

UPDATE:

5 matches into the winter league and we are still winless.
This week we had to give guys 14 and 13 shots respectively over the 12 holes.
They managed 7 net birdies

better the Gross ones though:rofl: