Why the short game?

[Jonny]

I did.

That said I don't think the short game reaps more rewards than the long game. I think the short game covers up issues in the long game... but that isn't enough to keep you where you are most of the time. Let alone reap any benefits.

 

[Oddsocks]

Rubbish. You might be able to cover up a poor long game with a very sharp shortgame at mid handicaps but you don't get to cat 1 by missing fairways and greens constantly and relying on getting up and down. You might break 80 doing that but you are never going to consistently shoot numbers in the low 70s with a poor long game.

I actually could disagree more. every cat one golfer i have played has been known to be wide off the tee, but everyone had a super sharp short game, most were up and down in 2 within 50-70 yards and all were assassin accurate with wedges.

 

[Jonny]

I actually could disagree more. every cat one golfer i have played has been known to be wide off the tee, but everyone had a super sharp short game, most were up and down in 2 within 50-70 yards and all were assassin accurate with wedges.

When you are wild off the tee those short shorts and deadly accurate wedges keep you where you are. You do not make birdie from the woods or the water. Ever.

When your long game is firing and you are hitting the fairway and the green then you make birdie. And that's not the short game doing that.

 

[Oddsocks]

i suppose alot goes down to what you call short game, is it solely chipping & putting, or do you count low irons too, for example 8-pw.

 

[Jonny]

I consider the short game to start when you're around less than a full shot with your most lofted club away from the pin.

Obviously you might choose to execute a short game shot with a fuller club from long range... but that's down to choice.

I also consider the short game and putting to be different elements of the game with similar objectives. To get the damn thing in the hole as effectively as possible.

 

[SGC001]

Imo it's good advice.

I'm with Penick and Pelz on this, I believe it is the quickest way to reduce your handicap and pretty much has always been recognised as such.

I think it's Pelz's stuff that indicates that 60-65% of all shots are within 100 yards accounting for 80% of peoples handicap (shots lost against par). I think he basically bases this on his putting conversion chart and the golden 8. In other words it's more a case of where you putt from that's how well you putt. He goes on to indicate that you make a 3 or a 4, you don't a 3.1 for a near miss and whilst you may be able to recover from wayward drive or an iron, it's less likely for you to be able to recover from a dodgy pitch, chip or putt. On tour it's scrambling that sets them apart (admittedly all are within a ballpark figure of ball striking). This can also put pressure on your short game as whilst it may be simpler (though there is many more possible techniques to choose from in the short game) you either hit it close enough to save par / make a birdie or you don't.

From his tour stats pros ball striking is between 5% and 9% error. I.e 200 yards away and 5% (best player puts it to 10 yards and at 30 feet should 2 putt, 9% error man puts it to 54 feet and wills till likely take 2. Now if you get your wedge error down you have a more realistic chance of making the next shot and genuinely gain shots on the field. I can't find the example been used but the implication is you are a 5% versus 9% long game you might gain .1 of a shot a hole on your opponent, whereas a 5% short game versus 9% might gain 0.4 a hole. I'd rather gain 0.4 a hole on my opponent than 0.1 (because of your chances of making he next shot, versus taking 2 or occasionally 3).

Unless you are continually knocking it ob or under a tree and having to chip out sideways, then it's the short game that can improve your scores. Even management of your long game could be argued to have more of an effect than your scoring than your long game. Hitting the ball no further than 150 yards (if you can do it consistently) can let you play to 14 with a good short game (no doubles and a few up and downs).

Once your game is semi reasonable you don't gain many shots for improvements here, you do lose shots by having a weak short game. How many people think I hit it better than them, they got lucky, how are they lower than me. It's usually because they have a short game and that's why they can be hard to shake off in match play.

I can remember reading somewhere where a handicap golfer took his tee shots and a pro then played his ball and vice versa. The pro played to around scratch with the handicap golfers tee shots, the same couldn't be said of the handicap golfer.

The problem is people are interested in ball striking over scoring (yet tend to insist upon measuring their improvements by score rather than fairways hit, greens hit etc, there's fewer places with good short game areas than driving ranges. If you want to improve your balls striking fine, I like hitting it well; but measure it accordingly it might limit your worst score, a good short game can lower your best.

Edit: Found bit about PEI
Best ball striker on tour (5%) guy hits from 180 yard to 27 feet. Statistically he receives a small advantage in putting conversion ove the field about 10 times a round. On the other hand a guy who improved to 5% short game hits a wedge from 40 yards to 6 feet. 5% long game guy is 15% short game guy and hits it to 18 feet. Short game guy will hole a lot more putts from 6 feet than long game guy does form 18 feet. The short game advantages occur 7-10 times a round (probably more for amateurs). 6 foot versus 15 foot on the conversion chart is about 0.5 ot 0.1 so gaining 0.4 7-10 times as opposed to very little 10 times a game.

 

[Jonny]

yes yes... and dave pelz has made a great amount of money out of over engineering statistics around the long and short games.

problem with all that though is that very few people outside the pro game have a 5-9% margin of error over 200 yards. In fact I would say that of the mid-teen golfers I play with that margin of error is more like 60% on average. 60% of the time it goes about halfway to the hole (if that) and the rest of the time it's in the woods. So the short game isn't going to help them score from 200 yards where long game improvements would.

 

[JT77]

I practise my short game, as I want to improve it. I went down to 10 because I was driving the ball well and hitting my irons well. I could get lower, because if I missed the green, I struggled to get up an down. From 100 yards I was poor, was hitting good drives but still making 5 on par 4's. My short game is definitely sharper than it was, offer helping me get up and down in 2 or 3 from 100. However, I have gone back to 12 this year because my driving has been awful, often getting up and down from 100 yards has been to save par or even to make bogey or double.
So no matter how good I got my short game, without a long game, its made no difference.
Now, I have started to get the driver going a little better, last few rounds have been on h'cap or better so looking forward to next year.
Imo your need a good balance to practice, as 1 without the other is almost pointless.

 

[DaveM]

Why not. Say the hole is 400yrds. I hit tee shot 200yrds. good chance of hi-brid to the green 2 putts for par. If I miss the green. Good chip and 1 put still par. So long game not always the be all and end all.

I am not a long hitter(240 on a good day) but I will be on the fairway. Not many holes I cant reach in reg, or at least have a put for par.

 

[Jonny]

Why not. Say the hole is 400yrds. I hit tee shot 200yrds. good chance of hi-brid to the green 2 putts for par. If I miss the green. Good chip and 1 put still par. So long game not always the be all and end all.

I am not a long hitter(240 on a good day) but I will be on the fairway. Not many holes I cant reach in reg, or at least have a put for par.

Or more typically. Poke it 200 yards down the fairway. Have a dig at a the green 200 yards away and fan it out to the right. Your 200 yard club will probably be short of the target since you fanned it right so that margin of error is now extended to 45 yards or so from your intended target. You are now in the rough, probably have something in your way and have to perform some kind of fast stopping shot from a less than ideal lie which will more often than not either go long or straight into the obstacle you have to carry.

More appropriately however. Hit it down the fairway. Being more consistent with your long game from 200 yards as you practice that you are either on or around the green and get up and down.


I find it very hard to understand why people think that having a good short game means that they can neglect their long game. The short game will not help you if you hit it in the ***. All it will do is keep a 5 or 6 from becoming a 9 or 10. And then there is no guarantee it will do that if you hit it far enough offline.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When you are wild off the tee those short shorts and deadly accurate wedges keep you where you are. You do not make birdie from the woods or the water. Ever.

When your long game is firing and you are hitting the fairway and the green then you make birdie. And that's not the short game doing that.

Event the pros don't hit 100 of FIR's or GIR's and some are decidedly wonky off the tee. A certain Mr Woods even at his prime would often miss plenty of fairways and I think he falls into Cat 1 status. His short game certainly held his game together and in particular won him several majors including one or two Masters where he chipped and putted the others out of contention

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Or more typically. Poke it 200 yards down the fairway. Have a dig at a the green 200 yards away and fan it out to the right. Your 200 yard club will probably be short of the target since you fanned it right so that margin of error is now extended to 45 yards or so from your intended target. You are now in the rough, probably have something in your way and have to perform some kind of fast stopping shot from a less than ideal lie which will more often than not either go long or straight into the obstacle you have to carry.

More appropriately however. Hit it down the fairway. Being more consistent with your long game from 200 yards as you practice that you are either on or around the green and get up and down.


I find it very hard to understand why people think that having a good short game means that they can neglect their long game. The short game will not help you if you hit it in the ***. All it will do is keep a 5 or 6 from becoming a 9 or 10. And then there is no guarantee it will do that if you hit it far enough offline.

I'm another short hitter. As I've said before I went to the Forest of Arden with a game plan. With 6 par 4's over 400 yards I refused to hit 5 wood or hybrid into any of them and laid up to within 100-120 yards and hit fulled wedges or 9 iron in and relied on two putting for nett pars. Think the result speaks volumes. I am trying do the same at my own club but familiarity breeds contempt and knowing I've hit all the long 4's in two before means I often go for them even in comps when I know the sensible option reaps rewards. Time for a mind shift

 

[JustOne]

Rubbish. You might be able to cover up a poor long game with a very sharp shortgame at mid handicaps but you don't get to cat 1 by missing fairways and greens constantly and relying on getting up and down. You might break 80 doing that but you are never going to consistently shoot numbers in the low 70s with a poor long game.
.

I actually could disagree more. every cat one golfer i have played has been known to be wide off the tee, but everyone had a super sharp short game, most were up and down in 2 within 50-70 yards and all were assassin accurate with wedges.

Sorry Jonny, I agree with Oddsocks.

There are tour pro's who only hit 50-60% of fairways, one would assume these guys are BETTER than CatI and generally earn a few million $'s every year.

Short game is the key. I think the PGA tour average is only 12 greens in regulation.

IIRC a tour pro last year won approx $1,000,000 in an event where he missed 21 greens out of the 72 holes played..... but got up and down all 21 times to win the event. Had he not gotten up and down those 21 times he wouldn't even have made the cut!

 

[DaveM]

Or more typically. Poke it 200 yards down the fairway. Have a dig at a the green 200 yards away and fan it out to the right. Your 200 yard club will probably be short of the target since you fanned it right so that margin of error is now extended to 45 yards or so from your intended target. You are now in the rough, probably have something in your way and have to perform some kind of fast stopping shot from a less than ideal lie which will more often than not either go long or straight into the obstacle you have to carry.

More appropriately however. Hit it down the fairway. Being more consistent with your long game from 200 yards as you practice that you are either on or around the green and get up and down.


I find it very hard to understand why people think that having a good short game means that they can neglect their long game. The short game will not help you if you hit it in the ***. All it will do is keep a 5 or 6 from becoming a 9 or 10. And then there is no guarantee it will do that if you hit it far enough offline.

Jonny why to you equate short hitters with crap golfers? Take my case. When I was younger I could hit it with the best of them, was in single numbers. Ok I am 65 in febuary and had to take nearly 4 years of from golf due to neck problems (3 discs gone) now i have been back playing for 12 months. With a restricted swing 3/4 length. So length is down, but everything is in the fairway. Ok I'm playing to 12 at the moment but not bad for only 12 months back. If I could stop myself going for some daft shots it would be lower. Next year I will be back into single numbers with a bit of luck. So not everyone is a hacker. Much as Homer runs himself down I very much doubt he is either. So wake up and smell the roses.

 

[Oddsocks]

Sorry Jonny, I agree with Oddsocks.

please don't make a habit of it, its boring and i don't like it!

 

[SGC001]

yes yes... and dave pelz has made a great amount of money out of over engineering statistics around the long and short games.

problem with all that though is that very few people outside the pro game have a 5-9% margin of error over 200 yards. In fact I would say that of the mid-teen golfers I play with that margin of error is more like 60% on average. 60% of the time it goes about halfway to the hole (if that) and the rest of the time it's in the woods. So the short game isn't going to help them score from 200 yards where long game improvements would.

Getting half way to the target would be a 50% error rate for pelz, so I think 60% is overstating it a bit (I doubt those 60% error rates you're quoting are referring to mid teen golfers). If a golfer is unable to make contact to that kind of extent then work on your contact (you can still do this with the short game as it is still practicing impact alignments). Once a golfer can hit roughly the right distance a decent amount of time, then that's where short game practice will come in. Working on the long game will still have benefits, but they won't show as much in your score.

Btw how many golfers you know practice their short game more than their long game?

Edit: I'm all in favour of people evaluating their game and seeing where they truly are losing their shots. I don't believe the majority are in the long game for most club golfers (and I include in this the mid teen golfers whose game you seem to have a much worse opinion of than I do). You can play golf in many ways, with a fade, a draw, a lack of distance; but if you can chip, putt and manage your game you can score.