Why do I find it easier to get out bunkers with my 54 degree than my 60?

[turkish]

I have a low bounce 60 degree vokey (L grind) and mid bounce 54 degree vokey (s grind).

I know my fault is often I take too much sand so I need to swing quite fast to pop it up and out.

with my 54 degree I get it out 9 of 10 (or probably more 19/20) but the 60 is probably like 50/50... not only that I feel as if I can control distance a bit better with the 54. I'm not really complaining as I know which suits me better and don't have much time for practicing bunker play and the time I do have is better suited to other parts of my game

But I would like to know why when most people say a 60 degree makes the job much easier?

 

[Region3]

I'm the same. I assume it's a fault with my technique that means I'm too steep rather than slicing under the ball, but the 54 comes out nice and the 60 really heavy with too much sand.

My 54 is S grind 10 bounce, the 60 is M grind 8 bounce. I guess it must be the grind rather than the bounce because I open both of them way up in bunkers.
The flip side is that I'm confident opening the 60 off a tight lie whereas I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it with the 54.

 

[turkish]

I'm the same. I assume it's a fault with my technique that means I'm too steep rather than slicing under the ball, but the 54 comes out nice and the 60 really heavy with too much sand.

My 54 is S grind 10 bounce, the 60 is M grind 8 bounce. I guess it must be the grind rather than the bounce because I open both of them way up in bunkers.
The flip side is that I'm confident opening the 60 off a tight lie whereas I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it with the 54.

Yeah I'm the exact same- the 60 is a great club when you're short sided on a tight lie- I probably use it more this way than a standard pitch- out of a bunker I'm useless with it- especially if there's a ton of sand under the ball, the only time I consider it now if there's not a lot of sand underneath but I still struggle to control it as much.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Seems obvious that it's the extra bounce, especially since you say you take too much sand with the 60°. Also, I think 60° is too much loft, the more loft the harder the distance control. I use a 58°, with 10° of bounce & I'm pretty good out of bunkers. I use the Stan Utley method, square stance, square clubhead, legs wide & very bent & aim for the ball, not 1" behind. Only time I open the face is if I need more loft to get over the face of the bunker.

 

[the_coach]

I have a low bounce 60 degree vokey (L grind) and mid bounce 54 degree vokey (s grind).

I know my fault is often I take too much sand so I need to swing quite fast to pop it up and out.

with my 54 degree I get it out 9 of 10 (or probably more 19/20) but the 60 is probably like 50/50... not only that I feel as if I can control distance a bit better with the 54. I'm not really complaining as I know which suits me better and don't have much time for practicing bunker play and the time I do have is better suited to other parts of my game

But I would like to know why when most people say a 60 degree makes the job much easier?

short answer the problems of steep & too much sand is all around set-up then technique issues - set-up is key to be able to have a more shallow AoA & just take the $ note shape sand the ball is sat on out up & forwards

with a club with more loft & less bounce & being steep that tends to do 2 things - present the leading edge as first point of contact with a de-lofted face so too much sand with the point of contact also being a ways too far behind the ball

to use a 60º with less bounce to have the greatest margin for error you'd have to open the face up some to be able to stand any chance of using the loft & the leading edge not dig down some - but then the technique would also have to be different to be able to maintain the open face & bounce through the sand

if you managed to maintain loft & bounce with the open face - then the issue would be the ball is goin to come out real high so would have to through practice learn what distance bunker shot range you got by doing this & only use it within that distance range

the 54º with more bounce is giving more margin of error in the contact with the sand to still get some height & distance on the ball to be able to get out of the trap a tad easier even though the AoA is maybes tad too steep

couple of things to think around generally over bunker set-up - is if you set-up more like the same distance ordinary pitch shot - so tad narrow stance with normal stance height that is going to encourage a steeper AoA & marry that up with thinking of swinging more along a direction of path that's at the target (flag) then that also will encourage entering the sand further behind the ball - so created the perfect storm scenario of over steep & a point of entry ways too far behind the ball

bunker set-up have a look at taking a wider stance with a tad more knee flex so lower stance height - you can feel that it's goin to be a ways easier to have a shallower angle of approach into the sand set-up this ways - as long as that set-up lower stance height is maintained through the motion so no standing up as the club goes back or in the downswing

point the face/leading edge of the club at point you want the ball to exit on & have the foot line just a tad open to that target line aim to contact sand an 1" - 11/2" behind ball & swing the clubhead along the line of the feet (not target line)

swing length around hands shoulder height goin back to around shoulder height or tad higher finish position - but with the technique it's really important it's not just a "pick up arms only swing" - body rotation sync-ed to the arm-swing is the engine
as ever got to practice this stuff to get any good with any consistency of shot distances - can't just wait until the shot turns up in a round

 

[patricks148]

I have a low bounce 60 degree vokey (L grind) and mid bounce 54 degree vokey (s grind).

I know my fault is often I take too much sand so I need to swing quite fast to pop it up and out.

with my 54 degree I get it out 9 of 10 (or probably more 19/20) but the 60 is probably like 50/50... not only that I feel as if I can control distance a bit better with the 54. I'm not really complaining as I know which suits me better and don't have much time for practicing bunker play and the time I do have is better suited to other parts of my game

But I would like to know why when most people say a 60 degree makes the job much easier?

who's saying the 60 is the better option?

if you were to look at most clubs labeled as a SW (old sets when they came with a SW) would have been 56 deg with at least 10 deg of bounce or more.
I don't know anyone that uses a 60 deg with no bounce out of a bunker. up until a few weeks ago i was still using my 56/13 SW and could get out of all but two of the very deep pot bunkers at my club (only two i struggled with were due to them having a down slope and then a 10 foot face.

with bunkers Bounce is your Friend

 

[richart]

Only helpful advice on bunker play I can give is to make sure you open the face of the club before you grip it. :thup:

 

[garyinderry]

Low bounce 60. No thanks.

My vokey k grind with the big sole and 11 degrees of bounce is brilliant around the greens and bunkers.

I used to drop it when playing links but there is a need. The bounce works beautifully on tight lies and slips in under the ball.

Bounce really is your friend.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Only helpful advice on bunker play I can give is to make sure you open the face of the club before you grip it. :thup:

This is really not necessary if you've got the correct amount of loft & bounce. Opening the face means you need to aim left, which adds an unneeded complication.

Stan Utley, one of the best bunker players around, advocates square face, square stance & aim for he ball, not 2" behind. This is good stuff:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001QPHNRG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

[bobmac]

This is really not necessary if you've got the correct amount of loft & bounce. Opening the face means you need to aim left, which adds an unneeded complication.

Stan Utley, one of the best bunker players around, advocates square face, square stance & aim for he ball, not 2" behind. This is good stuff:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001QPHNRG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Completely disagree but if it works for you

 

[Maninblack4612]

Completely disagree but if it works for you

It revolutionized my bunker play, which used not to be very good. Square stance & face, very wide stance with knees very bent & hands low. The club just glides under the ball and it pops up beautifully. I would recommend this method to anyone struggling out of bunkers.

 

[garyinderry]

What does it mean by aim for the ball? surely you would just hit the ball in that case?

 

[Maninblack4612]

What does it mean by aim for the ball? surely you would just hit the ball in that case?

It works because the stance is so wide & the hands low that the club enters the sand at a very shallow angle & slides under the ball. Bit like deliberately hitting it fat from the fairway.