Swinger
Journeyman Pro
The answer for me is Alcohol. To be honest I was one of the best (if not the best!!) social golfers of my day.
Why are most golfers today rubbish?
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
19thagain
Head Pro
I am in the Chris camp on this subject re the age thing but another area in modern golf that was not there in my younger day is SSS/CSS.
I cannot be alone in playing a par 71 course - SSS69 - CSS 68 every week (good golfers recording good scores) and I therefore, standing on the first tee, know I have to beat par by three strokes to hit CSS.
In the old days my handicap would have me swagger into the club whereas I am now, due to CSS, just in the vanguard of players.
Bob, I think we should revert to handicapping off par and see the average handicap drop by at least three shots!
I cannot be alone in playing a par 71 course - SSS69 - CSS 68 every week (good golfers recording good scores) and I therefore, standing on the first tee, know I have to beat par by three strokes to hit CSS.
In the old days my handicap would have me swagger into the club whereas I am now, due to CSS, just in the vanguard of players.
Bob, I think we should revert to handicapping off par and see the average handicap drop by at least three shots!
bobmac
Major Champion
Alex, apologies. I wasn't having a go at the likes of yourself who work hard at your game.
I was talking about the golfer who does no practice and thinks because he has all the best kit, he should be able to play well and moans when he doesnt.
I spend my days with both types and believe me I'd rather spend 2 hours working with a player like yourself who tries, than 10 mins with someone I know won't lesten to a word I've said.
I was talking about the golfer who does no practice and thinks because he has all the best kit, he should be able to play well and moans when he doesnt.
I spend my days with both types and believe me I'd rather spend 2 hours working with a player like yourself who tries, than 10 mins with someone I know won't lesten to a word I've said.
A
Alex1975
Guest
Coolio, my guess was you were after a tone for your post and I get it. I guess I only try to mix with players/people who are looking to get better both on here and the club.
Anyhow I was not really pissy, just grandstanding a little
DCB
Well-known member
Bob,
I read your first paragraph whilst stifling the laughs. that could be almost any Scottish schoolboy of the late 60's early 70's. We all seem to have started off that way up here. I probably gazed out across the Forth on a sunny summer holiday and saw you playing over on the Fife side of the water
Could an answer to your question be that as we have all the gear nowadays, we've lost the ability to visualise and imagine the shot we need to play ? With a half set of clubs we could play almost any type of shot that was required. We adapted and improvised in order to get better. Nowadays you don't see that type of play. Even the Juniors at my club have better kit than I have and I consider myself a 'gear freak'
Mind you, don't think Juniors would wear those horrible black rubber Stylo shoes we used to have complete with matching kilties
I read your first paragraph whilst stifling the laughs. that could be almost any Scottish schoolboy of the late 60's early 70's. We all seem to have started off that way up here. I probably gazed out across the Forth on a sunny summer holiday and saw you playing over on the Fife side of the water
Could an answer to your question be that as we have all the gear nowadays, we've lost the ability to visualise and imagine the shot we need to play ? With a half set of clubs we could play almost any type of shot that was required. We adapted and improvised in order to get better. Nowadays you don't see that type of play. Even the Juniors at my club have better kit than I have and I consider myself a 'gear freak'
Mind you, don't think Juniors would wear those horrible black rubber Stylo shoes we used to have complete with matching kilties
A
Alex1975
Guest
Bob,
I read your first paragraph whilst stifling the laughs. that could be almost any Scottish schoolboy of the late 60's early 70's. We all seem to have started off that way up here. I probably gazed out across the Forth on a sunny summer holiday and saw you playing over on the Fife side of the water
Could an answer to your question be that as we have all the gear nowadays, we've lost the ability to visualise and imagine the shot we need to play ? With a half set of clubs we could play almost any type of shot that was required. We adapted and improvised in order to get better. Nowadays you don't see that type of play. Even the Juniors at my club have better kit than I have and I consider myself a 'gear freak'
Mind you, don't think Juniors would wear those horrible black rubber Stylo shoes we used to have complete with matching kilties
So do you think we hug the idea of having and using 14 clubs and maybe thats too many? I only this week have started to play with the idea of low and high shots and choking down and playing smooth and the like. Dont get me wrong, I chip with all my clubs and play back in my stance under trees and try to hit low drives into the wind, but It has never been put to me that there is alot more you can do than just take the next club up or down.
Has it always been 14 clubs?
bobmac
Major Champion
When DCB started I don't think there were any rules
S
Snelly
Guest
I think there is little difference in the number of rubbish golfers these days than there was when I was a lad!
The more alarming critical difference in my view is that rubbish golfers have a lot more posh gear and take much longer to get round the course these days. The two things are probably interlinked but the main problem is the gullible golfers who buy the same stuff as, and take as long over their shot as, the pros on TV. Pro golfers have a lot to answer for in my view when it comes to pace of play and the current obsession with new stuff every year!
The more alarming critical difference in my view is that rubbish golfers have a lot more posh gear and take much longer to get round the course these days. The two things are probably interlinked but the main problem is the gullible golfers who buy the same stuff as, and take as long over their shot as, the pros on TV. Pro golfers have a lot to answer for in my view when it comes to pace of play and the current obsession with new stuff every year!
chrisd
Major Champion
Spot on mate!
I played the Seniors open ( I know - I look too young) in the week and on a tough day scored 35 points (actual score 84) on a par 71 course playing off 12. The winner by 3 points was 43 and I was joint 21st of 109. No hole played to its handicap as an average and the hardest was about 2.8 over par. I went up .1 as the CSS was 69
Can anyone explain?
Chris
19thagain
Head Pro
Playing out of Nairn and Carnoustie, with a breeze blowing, breaking 80 was somewhat difficult at times and, in my opinion, anything but average, even with new kit!
Many top pro scores around those links testify to this and I guess club pros could have even a harder time and they are not classed as average.
grumpyjock
Tour Rookie
When DCB started I don't think there were any rules
C'mon Bob, you're older than me so you'll remember these
Away an boil your heed.
I'm only 42
#i have clubs older than that!
TheClaw
Q-School Graduate
First of all you still need a decent swing to use any clubs (well). With today's more forgiving clubs, complete diddys can hit the odd amazing shot, even with a dodgy swing. Back in the day you would need a better swing to hit any shot properly.
Also, these odd amazing shots might keep bringing the player back for more rather than get good or quit (might have happened before?).
Only been playing a few years but it makes sense to me
Also, these odd amazing shots might keep bringing the player back for more rather than get good or quit (might have happened before?).
Only been playing a few years but it makes sense to me
Mick47
Head Pro
I think that it's because there are too many people like me playing.
I took up the game at age 61, I found I liked it a lot, not because I'm good at it- I'm not- and I don't expect to get much better. Oh I will put the odd range session in and have the odd ten minutes practicing my swing in the garden and try a few puts on the living room carpet but that's about all the effort I'm willing to put in. I play for the exercise, the banter, the countryside and the drink at the 19th. Up to the age of 60 I competed at archery and shot for the county team, to get to that level I practised for 2hrs per day in the week and more at the weekends. As an archer I had some natural talent and this combined with many hours practice took me to a reasonable level, As a golfer I have little or no natural talent and therefore have little to build on. Golf is addictive and many begin to delude themselves that with a lesson and a few hrs practice they can become the new Tiger Woods. It won't happen. To get there you need natural talent, thousands of hrs of practice and a bloody good mentor, Oh and it helps if you don't wait until you're 60 before you start
I took up the game at age 61, I found I liked it a lot, not because I'm good at it- I'm not- and I don't expect to get much better. Oh I will put the odd range session in and have the odd ten minutes practicing my swing in the garden and try a few puts on the living room carpet but that's about all the effort I'm willing to put in. I play for the exercise, the banter, the countryside and the drink at the 19th. Up to the age of 60 I competed at archery and shot for the county team, to get to that level I practised for 2hrs per day in the week and more at the weekends. As an archer I had some natural talent and this combined with many hours practice took me to a reasonable level, As a golfer I have little or no natural talent and therefore have little to build on. Golf is addictive and many begin to delude themselves that with a lesson and a few hrs practice they can become the new Tiger Woods. It won't happen. To get there you need natural talent, thousands of hrs of practice and a bloody good mentor, Oh and it helps if you don't wait until you're 60 before you start
In the good ol' days golf was a game played by the few.
I started purely because a mate wanted some company. I was considered common by the members, but as soon as my mates heard about it I was considered a hoighty toighty snob. It was a serious past time to those who played it, and shouldn't be opened to the proletariat.
Nowadays there are 4 times as many players, and they come from a greater cross section of society.
However there are, and have always been a certain number of whinging gits in society, and given the increased numbers of golfers, it's fair to say that the whingers have increased in equal proportions. Nowadays there are more hackers about who care less about etiquette etc, but stil expect to be treated like royalty.
I get it in my job, you get it in yours.
I'd still swap anyday
I started purely because a mate wanted some company. I was considered common by the members, but as soon as my mates heard about it I was considered a hoighty toighty snob. It was a serious past time to those who played it, and shouldn't be opened to the proletariat.
Nowadays there are 4 times as many players, and they come from a greater cross section of society.
However there are, and have always been a certain number of whinging gits in society, and given the increased numbers of golfers, it's fair to say that the whingers have increased in equal proportions. Nowadays there are more hackers about who care less about etiquette etc, but stil expect to be treated like royalty.
I get it in my job, you get it in yours.
I'd still swap anyday
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Interesting debate.
I think that gear can only make a marginal difference to most players.
The gear I have now is much better than the gear I had 30 years ago. My scores are a bit better.
In 1934 Henry Cotton knocked it round Sandwich in 65 with stuff you'd chuck in a skip these days.
Most people on this forum have bags that a golfer from the 1970's would die for but I reckon most, including the high h/cappers, wouldn't play an awful lot worse with the Dunlop Peter Thomsons and Slazenger+ laminated woods (real wood!)that were in my bag the first time I broke 80. Would maybe make a good feature in the magazine. Give some modern golfers some gear from different eras and see what happens.
Why are there so many rubbish golfers? Because golf is a bl**dy hard game.
I think that gear can only make a marginal difference to most players.
The gear I have now is much better than the gear I had 30 years ago. My scores are a bit better.
In 1934 Henry Cotton knocked it round Sandwich in 65 with stuff you'd chuck in a skip these days.
Most people on this forum have bags that a golfer from the 1970's would die for but I reckon most, including the high h/cappers, wouldn't play an awful lot worse with the Dunlop Peter Thomsons and Slazenger+ laminated woods (real wood!)that were in my bag the first time I broke 80. Would maybe make a good feature in the magazine. Give some modern golfers some gear from different eras and see what happens.
Why are there so many rubbish golfers? Because golf is a bl**dy hard game.
Mongoose
Assistant Pro
My take on why most regular golfers are not good golfers:-
- They are lazy, they profess to keeness and commitment, but neither practice nor work on their game in any way. If they do have lessons they dont practice what they have paid for.
- They are seduced by the bombardment of product offerings and brainwashed into believing that equipment really does make a difference. It doesnt. A good golfer can go round in the 70's with a half set of ladies clubs. They are gullible and believe equipment is the solution, the gullibility is partly due to it being the lazy solution. If a typical golfer took up juggling they would keep buying different juggling balls in an effort to improve, but most would not bother to learn how to actually juggle.
- They find excuses... "you need talent", "I dont have the time", "my course is hard", "its a tough game", "the wife wont let xyz". They find an excuse that attempts to mask their laziness.
- They play formats which arent conducive to improvement such as Stableford. Handicap golf encourages mediocrity, relying on a crutch to bolster ones abilities and reward poor golf is not the way forwards. Handicap protection is far too frequent.
- They believe golf is golf swing. Golf swing is about 25% of golf. Its a game. As with any game it requires strategy, tactics and a sensible approach. They dont learn to play the game (and club pro's are guilty of teaching golf swing not golf).
- They are overly optimistic about their abilities. Stick them 220yds from a protected green and out comes to 3W for the miracle shot.
Golf is tough, but any reasonably able bodied male between 15 and 50 can comfortably play to single figures on an average dificulty course. Most dont. They choose not to do so. It really is a choice not to.
- They are lazy, they profess to keeness and commitment, but neither practice nor work on their game in any way. If they do have lessons they dont practice what they have paid for.
- They are seduced by the bombardment of product offerings and brainwashed into believing that equipment really does make a difference. It doesnt. A good golfer can go round in the 70's with a half set of ladies clubs. They are gullible and believe equipment is the solution, the gullibility is partly due to it being the lazy solution. If a typical golfer took up juggling they would keep buying different juggling balls in an effort to improve, but most would not bother to learn how to actually juggle.
- They find excuses... "you need talent", "I dont have the time", "my course is hard", "its a tough game", "the wife wont let xyz". They find an excuse that attempts to mask their laziness.
- They play formats which arent conducive to improvement such as Stableford. Handicap golf encourages mediocrity, relying on a crutch to bolster ones abilities and reward poor golf is not the way forwards. Handicap protection is far too frequent.
- They believe golf is golf swing. Golf swing is about 25% of golf. Its a game. As with any game it requires strategy, tactics and a sensible approach. They dont learn to play the game (and club pro's are guilty of teaching golf swing not golf).
- They are overly optimistic about their abilities. Stick them 220yds from a protected green and out comes to 3W for the miracle shot.
Golf is tough, but any reasonably able bodied male between 15 and 50 can comfortably play to single figures on an average dificulty course. Most dont. They choose not to do so. It really is a choice not to.
NWJocko
Tour Winner
Are u for real!!?
SatchFan
Q-School Graduate
Back in the neolithic ages I also had the Dunlop rubber shoes and the best ball in my pencil bag was a Penfold Commando. Age 16 I was playing off 7 and half dozen or more other juniors were playing off less.
Shift forward over 30 years having taken up the game again last year I now have all the posh Ping pensioner kit, play off 13 but cannot break 80. My last 12 rounds have been between 80 and 84 so I am consistent if nothing else. My finesse from 100 yards in is almost non-existant. Problem is I get to the course and can't resist doing 18 holes just to see if I can break 80 again. As a junior it was my short game which got me my low scores and I honestly thought that when I took up the game again it would all come back to me. Funnily enough the long game is the best its ever been and I would put this nearly all down to the gear. Short game - now that requires some disciplined practice and until I decide to knuckle down and put the time in then that 79 will continue to be very elusive.
Shift forward over 30 years having taken up the game again last year I now have all the posh Ping pensioner kit, play off 13 but cannot break 80. My last 12 rounds have been between 80 and 84 so I am consistent if nothing else. My finesse from 100 yards in is almost non-existant. Problem is I get to the course and can't resist doing 18 holes just to see if I can break 80 again. As a junior it was my short game which got me my low scores and I honestly thought that when I took up the game again it would all come back to me. Funnily enough the long game is the best its ever been and I would put this nearly all down to the gear. Short game - now that requires some disciplined practice and until I decide to knuckle down and put the time in then that 79 will continue to be very elusive.
