WHS - Subbing a card from a different course

[BooTheMightyHamster]

Apologies, because I'm sure the answer to this is out there somewhere, but thus far my Google-Fu has failed me.

I took up golf last May, and joined my local club. At the same time, I was 'adopted' by my neighbours golf-playing buddies, so I usually get a game every Friday at a variety of courses. I subbed three cards from my home course last Autumn, which got me my initial handicap but as I usually play on my own for practice there, I've not subbed many more cards since, so my handicap hasn't gone down despite my game having definitely improved (a bit).

So I was wondering - surely I could use those Friday rounds at other courses to submit cards towards my handicap? How would I go about that? Is that done through the course that I'm visiting, or can I bring a signed card back to 'my' club and do it through the Pro shop there?

Thanks in advance.

Boo

 

[Cake]

So I was wondering - surely I could use those Friday rounds at other courses to submit cards towards my handicap? How would I go about that? Is that done through the course that I'm visiting, or can I bring a signed card back to 'my' club and do it through the Pro shop there?

Thanks in advance.

Boo

Can only speak for England, but the England Golf app lets you do exactly this - one of your playing partners will need the app also, so that they can attest to your score in the app at their end. No need to involve anyone at the club you’re visiting, or at your home club.

Just remember to start a scorecard before you leave the first tee as there is a geo-fence to prevent you starting one mid-round.

 

[BooTheMightyHamster]

Excellent! Thanks!

 

[Swango1980]

Excellent! Thanks!

And, if that fails for whatever reason, the backstop would be that you can return your scorecard to your home club, signed by you and your marker. I'd notify your handicap secretary just to give them a heads up, so it doesn't get missed.

But, as was already said, the England Golf App is the best and easiest approach. The only thing I would say is that you should check before teeing off that the course is set up to allow acceptable scores for handicap, particularly at this time of year. It may not be possible at some clubs, for example we have not been able to submit scores since November as the greenkeepers are doing work on the 18th tee box, and the hole is a lot shorter than it would be normally.

 

[2blue]

And, if that fails for whatever reason, the backstop would be that you can return your scorecard to your home club, signed by you and your marker. I'd notify your handicap secretary just to give them a heads up, so it doesn't get missed.

But, as was already said, the England Golf App is the best and easiest approach. The only thing I would say is that you should check before teeing off that the course is set up to allow acceptable scores for handicap, particularly at this time of year. It may not be possible at some clubs, for example we have not been able to submit scores since November as the greenkeepers are doing work on the 18th tee box, and the hole is a lot shorter than it would be normally.

Just wondering that if the remainder of the course's playing conditions are OK, wouldn't it still be Q even with a hole out of play?

 

[Swango1980]

Just wondering that if the remainder of the course's playing conditions are OK, wouldn't it still be Q even with a hole out of play?

The hole is still in play, and thus the club have said the course is not acceptable for handicap scores.

Ironically, if the hole was closed completely, then scores could be submitted.

 

[rulefan]

for example we have not been able to submit scores since November as the greenkeepers are doing work on the 18th tee box, and the hole is a lot shorter than it would be normally.

Could you not use Rule 3.2 for 17 holes or adjust according to Appendix G f.(i)

 

[Swango1980]

Could you not use Rule 3.2 for 17 holes or adjust according to Appendix G f.(i)

Rule 3.2 suggests this could be done if the hole was out of play. It isn't. it is just a lot shorter than it should be. Appendix G seems to suggest the club could notify the Authorized Authority about temporary changes, to determine whether Ratings could be adjusted.

These either don't apply, or are probably not overly practical.

Even if the club was to assign new ratings, is this easy to apply within the software. Or, if players still played the last hole but this could be removed from the acceptable score (just assigning a nett par instead), how would that be done within the software?

The club have made the simple, and most likely correct choice in prohibiting acceptable scores whilst the tee box is out of position. Unfortunately, the work has not been insignificant, and so players have not been able to submit scores from November, and I cannot see the work being finished until at least April, although maybe they'll surprise us and get it done a bit earlier.

 

[jim8flog]

It may not be possible at some clubs, for example we have not been able to submit scores since November as the greenkeepers are doing work on the 18th tee box, and the hole is a lot shorter than it would be normally.

If you use the England golf APP you could simply record the hole as not started.

 

[Swango1980]

If you use the England golf APP you could simply record the hole as not started.

I've not even tried to use the App, as the club emailed us to say scores cannot be accepted. I assumed they disabled it, or would delete any scores that come through.

If I was making the decision on behalf of the club, I certainly wouldn't ask members to do this. Because there is no way all members would do it correctly, and it would mean having to check every score. Also, in competitions players would need to enter the actual score on the 18th.

It would be nice if clubs could just disable hole(s) on the course, so players could enter whichever score they like, but it is automatically changed to a "Not Started" hole for handicap purposes.

 

[rulefan]

Rule 3.2 suggests this could be done if the hole was out of play. It isn't. it is just a lot shorter than it should be. Appendix G seems to suggest the club could notify the Authorized Authority about temporary changes, to determine whether Ratings could be adjusted.

These either don't apply, or are probably not overly practical.

Even if the club was to assign new ratings, is this easy to apply within the software. Or, if players still played the last hole but this could be removed from the acceptable score (just assigning a nett par instead), how would that be done within the software?

The club have made the simple, and most likely correct choice in prohibiting acceptable scores whilst the tee box is out of position. Unfortunately, the work has not been insignificant, and so players have not been able to submit scores from November, and I cannot see the work being finished until at least April, although maybe they'll surprise us and get it done a bit earlier.

Your County can give a temporary rating for the shortened course. They would need details of the differences in length and distances of obstructions from the drive or following strokes etc. My county (and presumably all others) have a form for this. But they will probably only accept the work if it not a very short duration but it is temporary.

But I have previously had it confirmed that you could score for the 17 holes and apply net par for the 18th and consider the hole as 'not played'.

 

[Swango1980]

Your County can give a temporary rating for the shortened course. They would need details of the differences in length and distances of obstructions from the drive or following strokes etc. My county (and presumably all others) have a form for this. But they will probably only accept the work if it not a very short duration but it is temporary.

But I have previously had it confirmed that you could score for the 17 holes and apply net par for the 18th and consider the hole as 'not played'.

How do you do that, without relying on every player to understand that and do it for themselves? In a competition, how would you do that, yet also record the actual score for the competition?

Also, as I understand it, if there were 3 holes on temp greens a score is not acceptable? Yet, if you took those 3 holes out of action, the score is acceptable? Is this correct? I believe a Committee cannot say "three holes are on temps, so just record them as Not Started for handicap purposes"?

If so, and we cannot accept scores when three or more holes are on temps, are we allowed to apply a different logic if any holes are significantly shortened or lengthened (yet still in play) and just say they are not started?

 

[rulefan]

My enquiry was related to a situation at my course virtually the same as yours. In our case the 200 yards of fairway before the green was out of action. That was the answer I got. In your case I would have thought it relatively easy to tell players that "as the tee is closed don't enter your score into the system but record not started" and run the comp over 17 holes as those are the only ones rated.

I can't answer Re the three temps but I will ask.

 

[Swango1980]

My enquiry was related to a situation at my course virtually the same as yours. In our case the 200 yards of fairway before the green was out of action. That was the answer I got. In your case I would have thought it relatively easy to tell players that "as the tee is closed don't enter your score into the system but record not started" and run the comp over 17 holes as those are the only ones rated.

I can't answer Re the three temps but I will ask.

When you have a membership of over 700 members, I'm guessing that quite a few would be submitting cards. Unless the club can automatically tell the system to ignore any scores submitted for the 18th, I would not trust that all members would follow this advice. Therefore, it would require the Committee to check every score that is submitted = absolute pain. Furthermore, it is likely visitors will also submit scores from time to time, that will have not recieved the same information via member communications, so you'd rely on a club official (i.e. pro) telling every visitor not to submit a score for the 18th, just on the off chance they are submitting a score.

Furthermore, when it comes to competitions, I suspect most members would prefer to play an 18-hole competition, not a 17 hole competition? I can only speak for myself, but I would far rather the 18th hole be part of the competition than not, even if that means the score cannot count for handicap.

 

[rulefan]

Well, it's your club's choice. Don't shoot the messenger

 

[Swango1980]

Well, it's your club's choice. Don't shoot the messenger

Not at all. I can see how things might be done theoretically. It is just the practical application that seems harder than it probably should be. And, the contradiction of not permitting rounds if 3 holes are on winter greens, but allowing rounds if those 3 holes were closed.

I can see why our club have simply prohibited acceptable scores. Either they are not acceptable anyway, or too hard to implement.

 

[rulefan]

I have confirmed that the same approach is acceptable if there are 3 temporary greens.

We have found no issues with taking the 18th out of play but it is up to your club as to whether or not your h'cap committee can manage it.

 

[Old Skier]

I have confirmed that the same approach is acceptable if there are 3 temporary greens.

We have found no issues with taking the 18th out of play but it is up to your club as to whether or not your h'cap committee can manage it.

Providing temp greens don’t have bucket holes.

 

[Swango1980]

I have confirmed that the same approach is acceptable if there are 3 temporary greens.

We have found no issues with taking the 18th out of play but it is up to your club as to whether or not your h'cap committee can manage it.

Are you sure. The Congu guidance to WHS states clearly that scores are only acceptable so long as there are no more than 2 temporary greens "in play". It does not say these can be acceptable provided...

Do you mean that, if these holes were taken out of play, scores could be acceptable?

 

[rulefan]

Are you sure.

Do you mean that, if these holes were taken out of play, scores could be acceptable?

Yes and yes. Using 3.2