APJ2709
New member
When playing off fairway mats through the green, can the competition be classed as a qualifying competition for handicap purposes?
When playing off fairway mats through the green, can the competition be classed as a qualifying competition for handicap purposes?
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Dunno - but your post subject qualifies as a contender for longest ever...🤔
A rulie will be along shortly to provide more useful feedback - meanwhile a First Post Hi and Welcome!
A rulie will be along shortly to provide more useful feedback - meanwhile a First Post Hi and Welcome!
i don't know for sure, but can't see why it couldn't not really that different to Preferred Lies and i think they are
rosecott
Money List Winner
Q. May an Affiliated Club conduct a Qualifying Competition(s) when the use of fairway mats to protect the course is obligatory?
A. Yes, a club may run Qualifying Competition(s) under such conditions provided:
• their use is restricted to the preferred lie period (period as directed by the Union).
• all other requirements for Competition Play Conditions have been satisfied.
• a Local Rule for the use of fairway mats has been set out in the Terms of Competition.
• The mat is not to be used for strokes made with a putter.
I don't think "through the green" is used any more, I assume that the mats may only be used on close mown areas.
PS just noticed that the specimen local rule does specify close mown areas only.
A. Yes, a club may run Qualifying Competition(s) under such conditions provided:
• their use is restricted to the preferred lie period (period as directed by the Union).
• all other requirements for Competition Play Conditions have been satisfied.
• a Local Rule for the use of fairway mats has been set out in the Terms of Competition.
• The mat is not to be used for strokes made with a putter.
I don't think "through the green" is used any more, I assume that the mats may only be used on close mown areas.
PS just noticed that the specimen local rule does specify close mown areas only.
DickInShorts
Newbie
Don’t forget that the course must be within 300 yards of its measured length to be a qualifying round. If between 100 and 300 yards shorter SSS is reduced by 1.
At both my clubs the courses are significantly shorter in the winter and would almost certainly be more than 300 yards shorter so couldn’t be qualifiers even with mats in use in closely mown.
Not sure what Nairn do regarding winter tees?
At both my clubs the courses are significantly shorter in the winter and would almost certainly be more than 300 yards shorter so couldn’t be qualifiers even with mats in use in closely mown.
Not sure what Nairn do regarding winter tees?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Welcome.
No.
Such a provision is effectively providing preferred lies in areas other than closely mown ones and would not comply with CONGU requirements for handicapping.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The suggested wording from CONGU is now:
‘When a player’s ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less and a putter is not being used for the stroke, the ball must be lifted, placed on and played from an Astroturf, or similar type of, mat. The mat must be placed as near as possible to where the ball originally lay, and the ball must be placed on the mat. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
If a ball when placed rolls off the mat, the player must try to place it a second time. If the ball again does not stay on the mat, the mat must be moved to the nearest spot, not nearer the hole, where the ball will come to rest on the mat when placed.
If the player accidentally causes the ball on the mat to move before a stroke is made, there is no penalty and the ball must be placed again on the mat.
If a tee is used to secure the mat into the ground, the ball must not be placed on the tee.’
‘When a player’s ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less and a putter is not being used for the stroke, the ball must be lifted, placed on and played from an Astroturf, or similar type of, mat. The mat must be placed as near as possible to where the ball originally lay, and the ball must be placed on the mat. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
If a ball when placed rolls off the mat, the player must try to place it a second time. If the ball again does not stay on the mat, the mat must be moved to the nearest spot, not nearer the hole, where the ball will come to rest on the mat when placed.
If the player accidentally causes the ball on the mat to move before a stroke is made, there is no penalty and the ball must be placed again on the mat.
If a tee is used to secure the mat into the ground, the ball must not be placed on the tee.’
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
DickInShorts
Newbie
Yes - but up here in Scotland most courses use winter tees or mats which are usually in front of the measured teeing areas. I know that’s not generally the case in Somerset and Dorset
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
We do have temporary tees* some of which are covered in mats but the question posed was referring to the use of fairway mats hence my comment.
*We have a certificated measured course for our temporary tees but I have been wondering how that is going to work when slope comes.
rulefan
Tour Winner
It will make no difference. If they were rated recently under the USGA rating system, they will have a slope.
But why were they rated? Are the mats significantly nearer the greens. They would all have to be nearer by more than 5 yards to be at all likely to make a difference. What is the difference in the CR and slope?
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
What about if you have to use the mats when teeing off from the tee (with any Club other than a Driver on a tee)?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
They were not measured when the recent course rating was done. (to the best of my knowledge).
It was done many years ago after we built a lot of permanent winter tees on the course. Some are in completely different locations to the summer tee, some are placed to the side of the yellow, two placed to the side of the white and some are just in front of the summer tee. Not all holes have one.
I would doubt they have reduced/increased the overall yellow yardage nor any hole to a length which would change the par. From memory the SSS was unchanged between the yellow and the winter course.
rulefan
Tour Winner
jim
Par is irrelevant. It's a matter of the length of the course from the normal course compared to the winter course. I would guess that the limits under CONGU will maintain with WHS but nothing has yet been published.
Par is irrelevant. It's a matter of the length of the course from the normal course compared to the winter course. I would guess that the limits under CONGU will maintain with WHS but nothing has yet been published.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Do you mean using fairway mats on a grass teeing area or on a mat teeing area?
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
Fairway mat on grass teeing area
rulefan
Tour Winner
There is no prohibition I know of that specifies the size of a teeing area mat and the local rule may specify where fairway mats may or must be used. Or it did in 2018.
However, the committee may not restrict or specify which (conforming) clubs may or may not be used anywhere on the course.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
Where does it specify this please?
rosecott
Money List Winner
Clause 13.1 of the CONGU manual.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
Got it - thanks.
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