When Does a Club Take Action

[Kellfire]

I've never seen anything I've been certain constituted cheating but I have seen countless attempts at players intending to take preferable drops when I've been certain they know enough about the game to know they can't do it. These include coming out sideways of yellow stakes, drops from white stakes, "provisional" drops and so on.

I was asked recently by a fellow competitor who was well out of the running if I would turn a blind eye to him adjusting the weights on his driver mid-round. I said no, he'd be putting me in an horrible position and he said, "No problem, just thought I'd ask".

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I don't think I have ever seen anyone cheat at my place. There are one or two little rumours here and there about certain people, but in the most, everything seems to be OK in comps

 

[hovis]

There's a mother of bandits at our club and the club wont do anything about it. I have attached a photo of his score card for the order of merit final (big prizes) i predicted the winner in the club house amongst fellow finalists and i was told to wind my neck in. Can anyone guess what tee he was stood on when he was told that he physically couldn't loose with the score he had???? Dark blue is a blob

He plays off 24 and was a 3/4 handicap comp in brutal conditions. He won with 35 points and i come second with 28 points (thats how hard the course was playing)


(Attachment of players card removed as it could be used to identify those concerned.. Mod Edit)

 

[pbrown7582]

Protecting handicaps and playing a leather wedge or recording wrong scores are all cheating some are easier to act on than others but all are quite tricky and difficult to prove.

 

[la_lucha]

There's a mother of bandits at our club and the club wont do anything about it. I have attached a photo of his score card for the order of merit final (big prizes) i predicted the winner in the club house amongst fellow finalists and i was told to wind my neck in. Can anyone guess what tee he was stood on when he was told that he physically couldn't loose with the score he had???? Dark blue is a blob

He plays off 24 and was a 3/4 handicap comp in brutal conditions. He won with 35 points and i come second with 28 points (thats how hard the course was playing)

If he's off 24 is he a new player? Maybe he doesn't understand how big a cheat he is at the moment?

 

[pbrown7582]

If he's off 24 is he a new player? Maybe he doesn't understand how big a cheat he is at the moment?

Or just cut him to 18 no one needs more than 1 shot a hole........ :mmm:

 

[hovis]

If he's off 24 is he a new player? Maybe he doesn't understand how big a cheat he is at the moment?

He's been there 2 years. I always new he was a cheat as he only played comps that qualify for merit points and always scored 36. Enough to get a moderate amount of points but still handicap preserving. The handicap secretary won't action coincidences

 

[swingking]

I've never seen anything I've been certain constituted cheating but I have seen countless attempts at players intending to take preferable drops when I've been certain they know enough about the game to know they can't do it. These include coming out sideways of yellow stakes, drops from white stakes, "provisional" drops and so on.

I was asked recently by a fellow competitor who was well out of the running if I would turn a blind eye to him adjusting the weights on his driver mid-round. I said no, he'd be putting me in an horrible position and he said, "No problem, just thought I'd ask".

To tell you the truth I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone changed the weights on their driver mid-round. Club comp or not. IMO there's got to be a bit of common sense used in some cases. I remember someone pulling me up on a sunday when I had to take a drop and said that my arm wasn't completely straight and at 90 degrees when dropping the ball. Ive been playing since a youngster so know the majority of the rules and can assure you if it wasn't at 90 degrees it was pretty damn close. My point is that that club comps are for amateurs and in some cases by not gaining an advantage and not complying to the rules 100% I don't see a problem. Often this is a judgement call and different cases call for different interpretation, but in the weight change case I wouldn't care at all.

 

[Kellfire]

To tell you the truth I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone changed the weights on their driver mid-round. Club comp or not. IMO there's got to be a bit of common sense used in some cases. I remember someone pulling me up on a sunday when I had to take a drop and said that my arm wasn't completely straight and at 90 degrees when dropping the ball. Ive been playing since a youngster so know the majority of the rules and can assure you if it wasn't at 90 degrees it was pretty damn close. My point is that that club comps are for amateurs and in some cases by not gaining an advantage and not complying to the rules 100% I don't see a problem. Often this is a judgement call and different cases call for different interpretation, but in the weight change case I wouldn't care at all.

*popcorn out*

 

[la_lucha]

To tell you the truth I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone changed the weights on their driver mid-round. Club comp or not. IMO there's got to be a bit of common sense used in some cases. I remember someone pulling me up on a sunday when I had to take a drop and said that my arm wasn't completely straight and at 90 degrees when dropping the ball. Ive been playing since a youngster so know the majority of the rules and can assure you if it wasn't at 90 degrees it was pretty damn close. My point is that that club comps are for amateurs and in some cases by not gaining an advantage and not complying to the rules 100% I don't see a problem. Often this is a judgement call and different cases call for different interpretation, but in the weight change case I wouldn't care at all.

So you condone cheating then? If it's not a level playing field how can you expect people of any level to compete?

 

[swingking]

For a 20 handicapper to change the weights on a driver mid-round will make no difference. Changing the weights in a driver mid round is not going to give anyone an advantage. So the 'level playing field' will remain the same.

Take Tiger at the masters 2 years ago. The drop he took was out by 2 feet. Do you think that makes a difference to any normal club player? Is that 'cheating'

 

[la_lucha]

For a 20 handicapper to change the weights on a driver mid-round will make no difference. Changing the weights in a driver mid round is not going to give anyone an advantage. So the 'level playing field' will remain the same.

Take Tiger at the masters 2 years ago. The drop he took was out by 2 feet. Do you think that makes a difference to any normal club player? Is that 'cheating'

So why change the weight if it makes no difference? I mean lets be honest ALL 20 Handicappers are crap at driving aren't they.

Rules are rules and they are not open for interpretation during a competition. Bounce games do what you like, but if you're in a comp with me I would hope you play by the rules.

Maybe I'm stuck off 19 because I play by the rules?

 

[swingking]

That's right. You'd probably be off 12 if you changed the weights on your driver mid round

Golf is supposed to be enjoyable and I agree with you 100% that it should be played off a level playing field with everyone abiding by the rules. I still think you are abiding by the laws if you take a drop and your drop is a foot away from the original shot (just like in the Tiger case)

 

[pbrown7582]

For a 20 handicapper to change the weights on a driver mid-round will make no difference. Changing the weights in a driver mid round is not going to give anyone an advantage. So the 'level playing field' will remain the same.

Take Tiger at the masters 2 years ago. The drop he took was out by 2 feet. Do you think that makes a difference to any normal club player? Is that 'cheating'

that's not the point the rules are there for all to abide by and by allowing a breach you should be Dq'D yourself. Change the weights mark a 4 instead of a 6 whats the difference?

 

[la_lucha]

I still think you are abiding by the laws if you take a drop and your drop is a foot away from the original shot (just like in the Tiger case)

The rules are not open to interpretation and that is a clear breach.

 

[pbrown7582]

That's right. You'd probably be off 12 if you changed the weights on your driver mid round

Golf is supposed to be enjoyable and I agree with you 100% that it should be played off a level playing field with everyone abiding by the rules. I still think you are abiding by the laws if you take a drop and your drop is a foot away from the original shot (just like in the Tiger case)

Tigers case wasn't that the drop was 2 feet away but the fact he admitted to intentionally dropping the ball 2 feet back and therefore knew it was in the wrong place.

 

[swingking]

Tigers case wasn't that the drop was 2 feet away but the fact he admitted to intentionally dropping the ball 2 feet back and therefore knew it was in the wrong place.

So what would you and La Lucha do on a sunday morning if you PP had gone in the water, got a new ball out of his bag, declared he was playing from his original shot, dropped the ball and it was a foot away from where he had played his first ball. Clearly your PP is not dropping it anywhere as to gain an advantage. What would you do?

 

[la_lucha]

So what would you and La Lucha do on a sunday morning if you PP had gone in the water, got a new ball out of his bag, declared he was playing from his original shot, dropped the ball and it was a foot away from where he had played his first ball. Clearly your PP is not dropping it anywhere as to gain an advantage. What would you do?

I'd tell him as I would hope he would do for me. Rules is rules. Where does it stop and how do you define a small cheat against a big cheat. If your PP duffs a shot and says he's not going to count it do you let him get away with it? A breach of rules is a breach of rules. It really is clear cut. For that reason I'M OUT.

 

[swingking]

I'd tell him as I would hope he would do for me. Rules is rules. Where does it stop and how do you define a small cheat against a big cheat. If your PP duffs a shot and says he's not going to count it do you let him get away with it? A breach of rules is a breach of rules. It really is clear cut. For that reason I'M OUT.

No such thing as big cheat or small cheat. A cheat is a cheat whatever way you look at it. Cheating is to act dishonestly to gain an advantage. In the above situation the PP has neither acted dishonestly nor gained an advantage, however you would pull him up because of it. Rules and how you abide by them are clearly open to interpretation, otherwise you wouldn't of needed a panel of rules officials to decide Tigers punishment (if any)

In the same tournament that young Asian amateur got penalised and given a shot penalty for 'slow play' this was the same punishment as Woods. Would you consider him a cheat?

Fact is the rules can be adhered to in a fair competition with a level playing field for everyone without being completely anal about them.

When I see people get pulled up for things like not dropping the ball in 100% the correct form I can only assume that person is trying to show off the fact he/she knows the letter of the law to the extreme or they are just a knob.

 

[hovis]

Ok, so in a weekly club comp your playing a chip shot onto the green but towards a greenside lake. Your pp/fellow competitor is standing with his back to the lake and facing you (he is stood on the edge of the lake)
You blade your shot and at mach 3 it makes it way towards the lake.

Do you.. ...

Expect your pp to leave the ball and go in the lake

Or

Stop the ball from meeting its impending doom with his foot. Then apply common sense and say " thanks for saving my £3 pro v1, I'll take the drop as if it had gone in the lake.


I already know what most people's answer will be and i thibk its crazy