When Does a Club Take Action

[GB72]

Interested to know how many reports, rumours or whatever does a club need to receive before they take action against an accused cheat.

In the past I stopped playing with someone because I suspected him of improving his lie. You know the sort of thing, always could get a club to the ball in deep rough, ball always sitting up etc. Never had enough to report but enough to front up with my suspicions and say I was not playing with him again. When asked why I had changed groups I made some excuse to be told that it was for the best as others had made accusations in the past. I was surprised that nothing had been done. Bill's thread brought the whole affair back.

So, whose club has done something about it, what did they do and what was the punishment. I am interested as suspect some clubs would be too worried about legal action to do much

 

[Bratty]

We have a couple of people who have had accusations levied at them.

The committee decided that we would draw them for a couple of comps with a couple of committee members so it could be observed and then decisions taken.

As far as I know, they've not been spotted since, but remain on the radar.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We have one member who in swindles seems to always score higher that what people actually get ( points wise )

For the last week finally someone else in the group did a card with him - first round he had the group at 5 more points

Next round he had someone at 4 more points

His team always seemed to win and he always seemed to get over 40 points

Surprisingly in medals it's opposite - not hit 36 in two years

He has been politely told by the swindle that he is no longer able to do the card

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's a tricky one. A club would surely need irrefutable proof or surely it becomes one man's word against another. I guess if there was a number of complaints a club would have to look into it but it's a rocky road. I know in my old club, a report of cheating (leather wedges, dropping balls) came in and the captain and committee ended up watching him from a distance, seeing it first hand and then confronting the guy. He left of his own accord once he was made aware the game was up.

 

[Hobbit]

I've had it as Chairman of Comps twice. After storing the powder till I had enough ammo I took action. I was then threatened with a Solicitor's letter. At this point I "had a quiet word." "I have evidence of x,y,z. Do you want this to go further. Miraculously, shock of shocks, everything went quiet."

On the other occasion, after hearing all the rumours and whinges I played in the group immediately behind. As I expected, the guy was just a bit vague and a ditherer. I let the matter drop as it was just old wives tales, much agreed by many other members. Some time later he approached me saying he'd heard rumours - he was a lovely man and genuinely horrified. When I told him he'd been checked out discreetly and found to be fine he was very thankful of the discretion shown.

More recently I know of a member who had a serious habit of doing many dodgy things. When a couple of guys finally had the spheriods to put it in writing he was taken to one side and told exactly what had been reported, and then included all the rumours. The guy admitted everything and said it had just become a habit he couldn't shake... he doesn't play in comps anymore.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

About 4 or 5 years ago we had a guy who was seen by the junior captain to give his ball the leather wedge out of the rough. He looked around to see that none of his playing partners were looking and then kicked it out. The trouble is that it was one persons word against another and nothing could be done other than the committee members keep a close watch on the culprit.

 

[Leereed]

I bet most of us on here will have been cheated out of a first place or on count back somewhere.problem is you have to be hawk eye if you suspect someone and that end ups spoiling your game.If you want it to be golf is a right cheat fest.we have all seen it someone in first cut ball sat down,you turn around then turn back and now it looks like it's on a tee.some how it's sat up on its own.Seen branches snapped, supposedly first balls found no where near where they were lost. the list goes on...

 

[NorfolkShaun]

Used to play at a club where the same people often won the comps, comment was even passed in front of the pro to me that when we had preferred lies they got a knock a nudge and a place.

Left the club soon after so never sure anything was done.

It is something you never want to see or hear of difficult subject to say the least

 

[Face breaker]

Got several at our club that could do with their handicap's revising (must be having a good day, i don't always play this well honest!) you know the sort, playing with a h/c of 17-18 but regularly thrashing people playing off of 9-10 !...:angry:

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I bet most of us on here will have been cheated out of a first place or on count back somewhere.problem is you have to be hawk eye if you suspect someone and that end ups spoiling your game.If you want it to be golf is a right cheat fest.we have all seen it someone in first cut ball sat down,you turn around then turn back and now it looks like it's on a tee.some how it's sat up on its own.Seen branches snapped, supposedly first balls found no where near where they were lost. the list goes on...

Why me?

 

[Leereed]

Why me?

Ha ha. Sure you don't need to be watched.😜

 

[JohnnyDee]

The ones that really annoy me are those with a problem when counting. For some inexplicable reason they struggle to compute the correct total in a very short sequence of consecutive numbers.

"How many was that?" You ask as you mark their card knowing it to be a 7. Accompanied by a pantomime of counting out loud along with finger pointing back down the hole (normally in a zig-zag pattern) the answer "6" is offered.

You politely suggest that perhaps it was 7, only then to have the whole act performed again when this time they suddenly remember the duff shot and then agree that in fact it was a 7 after all.

Of course sometimes with some people there can be a genuine mistake made, but over a period of time you get to know the ones who missed basic counting at primary school.

I never let it go but it is quite annoying to have to correct people, and you find that your own game can suffer. You might be thinking about their score on a hole when you should be concentrating on holing your own putt instead.

 

[Region3]

Unless you were trying to catch them at it, why would you ask if you already know?

I see it as my role as marker to try to keep track of their shots, and am slightly embarrassed when I have to ask - usually because I've played the hole via the more scenic route!

 

[JohnnyDee]

Unless you were trying to catch them at it, why would you ask if you already know?

I see it as my role as marker to try to keep track of their shots, and am slightly embarrassed when I have to ask - usually because I've played the hole via the more scenic route!

I do too and I would only ask if they don't declare. I always declare my own score to my marker to avoid confusion or potential misunderstanding later. Either that or my marker may say to me 5? as we leave a green. To which I would agree or declare 4 or 6 or whatever the score was. No hard and fast rule really.

 

[Tommo21]

As some of you well know I refused to sign a guys card at Dunbar after he was clearly and repeatedly replaced his ball differently from the way he was marking it....slide the coin under the ball when marking, replace the ball closer with a clear gap between coin and ball. Doesn't sound much but he was breaking a basic rule.

I didn't know the guy from Adam and if his score stood he would've been in with the lowest gross, lowest net, sweep money and money for his birdie 2 on the par three 16th. It was a big call for me. I explained it to the captain and immediate action was taken that evening and he was omitted from the results.

He's a cat 1 golfer, won quite a few comps over some time, but he's never won anything ever since and I don't regret it for one second.

 

[Beezerk]

Saw cheating twice at our place last year, both times in weekend comps. Didn't say anything as I'm a relatively new member at the club so didn't want to rock the boat.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

I do too and I would only ask if they don't declare. I always declare my own score to my marker to avoid confusion or potential conflict. Either that or my marker may say to me 5? as we leave a green. To which I would agree or declare 4 or 6 or whatever the score was. No hard and fast rule really.

How do you pull them up on their counting, challenge them in front of all of your fourball/threeball or have a quiet word?

We had a situation on our par 5 first on Saturday in the Monthly Medal. We had also tossed the balls up and were having a match and one of our opponents pulled his third shot into the trees, took a penalty drop, took another 3 shots to get onto the green and then 2 putted. I heard him then tell his marker 8 and as I had taken 7 thought that there was no way that he was only one shot worse than me.

I went over his shots the best I could remember as we walked to the next tee and was sure it was 9 not 8. The dilemma was then how to correct him, quietly or get the other 2 involved as well. In the end I said it openly and after twice being told no it was 8 the others then agreed that it was a 9 and he corrected it. I genuinely think he was forgetting to add the penalty drop to his score and not deliberately understating his score.

It did however make for an awkward next couple of holes as his mood seemed to change. Did he think that I thought he was cheating? Should I have approached it differently? Is there a set procedure or is each case to be treated on its own merits?

 

[JohnnyDee]

How do you pull them up on their counting, challenge them in front of all of your fourball/threeball or have a quiet word?

We had a situation on our par 5 first on Saturday in the Monthly Medal. We had also tossed the balls up and were having a match and one of our opponents pulled his third shot into the trees, took a penalty drop, took another 3 shots to get onto the green and then 2 putted. I heard him then tell his marker 8 and as I had taken 7 thought that there was no way that he was only one shot worse than me.

I went over his shots the best I could remember as we walked to the next tee and was sure it was 9 not 8. The dilemma was then how to correct him, quietly or get the other 2 involved as well. In the end I said it openly and after twice being told no it was 8 the others then agreed that it was a 9 and he corrected it. I genuinely think he was forgetting to add the penalty drop to his score and not deliberately understating his score.

It did however make for an awkward next couple of holes as his mood seemed to change. Did he think that I thought he was cheating? Should I have approached it differently? Is there a set procedure or is each case to be treated on its own merits?

Seems to me you handled it the best way you could. It's always a moment that can introduce awkwardness depending on the player being who's being 'picked up'.

And although you weren't this chap's marker I do feel that you were right to speak up.

I always would politely ask 'are you sure it wasn't an eight as I took seven myself and you were in more trouble than me' and try and make it light hearted. Normally results in a recount and 'oh yes you're right, sorry...'. Not always but mostly.

Sounds like your guy was genuine in his mistake. However if you're sure a player is wrong and you're doing the card then I feel the only real action is to refuse to continue to mark it. Once it becomes that serious I'm pretty sure between three / four people the right number can be agreed, though next few holes could be a little tense and maybe even icy 😄

Not sure what the official position when you're not the marker is, but believe it's still any player in the group's responsibility to point out a breach of rules or a possible incorrectly declared score at a hole.

One of our rules gurus could perhaps confirm or dispel this?

 

[la_lucha]

Personally sometimes I take that many shots on a bad hole I can forget how many I've had. Honest mistake and not trying to cheat. This happens about 18 times each round.

 

[Craigg]

I used to play with a guy who was a dreadful counter. Not sure if he did it on purpose but it got to the point where I had to stop playing with him. I was sick of him openly trying to beat me by cheating. He also had a nice trick on the green which took me a while to spot. He would mark his ball with the marker between the ball and the hole, then replace it on the other side of the marker, gaining a couple of inches each time. I can't abide cheats so found myself another pp.