Wheels have came off again

[VVega]

Don't be afraid to stick to your guns about which club you want the lesson to be about. I've had lessons purely about individual clubs on multiple occasions. It's your lesson, you are paying the money. As you say, if the pro won't do this then change your pro.

Exactly, very odd that out of 8 pros none want to work on the driver - which is a very different shot to the rest of golf. Wouldn’t be even starting the lesson if they can’t /won’t work on what I’m interested in.

I’d suggest finding the best coach you can access within your driving distance and sticking with them. Might be expensive but worth more multiple lessons with inflexible pros.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Good explanation. I was going to suggest that maybe he had the ball too far forward and he was virtually missing it on his upswing, but catching enough to hit it downwards at high speed

My thought as well. The ball would have to be so far back in the stance to drive it down into the ground like in the picture.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Exactly, very odd that out of 8 pros none want to work on the driver - which is a very different shot to the rest of golf. Wouldn’t be even starting the lesson if they can’t /won’t work on what I’m interested in.

I’d suggest finding the best coach you can access within your driving distance and sticking with them. Might be expensive but worth more multiple lessons with inflexible pros.

How many different swings should you have? ?

 

[bobmac]

My thought as well. The ball would have to be so far back in the stance to drive it down into the ground like in the picture.

Not necessarily.
If the ball is positioned in line with the left heel and the golfer gets ahead of the ball at impact, especially if the swing is a little out to in, I wouldn't be surprised by that outcome

 

[Foxholer]

Possible sway in backswing?

I thought I had included the 'sway' possibility, though in the downswing, in my earlier post (now updated). To me, if the sway is in the backswing only, a (possibly weak) 'armsy' thin would be the more likely result - and that obviously isn't the result when things work properly.
As noted, though a Pro should be able to identify the cause, or even simply the likely cause, within seconds. So Op should insist on that being the primary object for a lesson. Given the intermittent nature though, it might not occur immediately - I remember playing some of my best golf in playing lessons!

 

[G1z1]

Just back from my lesson and was hitting nice straight drives by the end but possibly slightly low but huge difference from yesterday.

So bit of backstory and I’ll try keep it short as possible. Other week when I was testing a course to possibly join I had mentioned to the pro my driver was off and he said he would have a look at it. By time my lesson came around I had managed to find a way to hit it really well so the lesson just consisted of me trying to get my swing speed up, also pro said I was standing too close to the ball and my stance was too narrow and I had to tilt more to the right on setup.

So fast forward to today with my regular pro, told him my game had went to pot. He starts off with wanting to see my 7 iron 10 shots later he said what’s happened to you you’re standing too far from the ball and your stance is too wide lol. So we get the driver out and that combined with the ball too far forward up at my left toe and I was tilting too much on setup. Basically started to hit the driver really well right away. Pro did say he would like to see a bit higher ball flight but not to worry too much about that the now.

 

[Springveldt]

Don't be afraid to stick to your guns about which club you want the lesson to be about. I've had lessons purely about individual clubs on multiple occasions. It's your lesson, you are paying the money. As you say, if the pro won't do this then change your pro.

Same for me. Whenever I've had a lesson I've told the pro exactly what I want to work on.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Just back from my lesson and was hitting nice straight drives by the end but possibly slightly low but huge difference from yesterday.

So bit of backstory and I’ll try keep it short as possible. Other week when I was testing a course to possibly join I had mentioned to the pro my driver was off and he said he would have a look at it. By time my lesson came around I had managed to find a way to hit it really well so the lesson just consisted of me trying to get my swing speed up, also pro said I was standing too close to the ball and my stance was too narrow and I had to tilt more to the right on setup.

So fast forward to today with my regular pro, told him my game had went to pot. He starts off with wanting to see my 7 iron 10 shots later he said what’s happened to you you’re standing too far from the ball and your stance is too wide lol. So we get the driver out and that combined with the ball too far forward up at my left toe and I was tilting too much on setup. Basically started to hit the driver really well right away. Pro did say he would like to see a bit higher ball flight but not to worry too much about that the now.

You can hit the ball 330 but you used the lesson to gain swing speed? ?

 

[Springveldt]

You can hit the ball 330 but you used the lesson to gain swing speed? ?

Most amateurs are terrible at estimating their drive distance. Maybe he’s a long drive champ as he was hitting it 290-330 while standing too close, too narrow and no tilt.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I just don’t know what to do now, I can’t hit my driver again. It’s always been the same problem since I took up golf 18months ago. I have always been able to hit my irons really well and consistent, it’s only ever the odd bad shot with irons but my driver and 3 wood i have periods that I’m hitting them great for 2/3 weeks then it turns into I can’t hit them at all. I have also worked with 8 different pros in 18 months they all just want to see me hit irons none ever want to work on driver and none of the 8 can get me hitting a driver consistent. So starting to think I will never get this driver fixed. Last week I hit a 330 yard drive and had loads around 280/290 best drives I’ve ever hit and today they were going maybe 100 yards lol. I took a photo I noticed my ball was hitting the ground, any ideas what is causing this ?

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To start with 8 coaches is way too many and you need to work out why you keep changing and what good it has done to help. Find one coach you can relate to and stick with them. Any coach I have used (and there have been a few but over a much longer time period than you) will happily give a driver lesson if you ask for one and will do a follow up if the fixes aren't making a difference. I think the issue is more with you and your relationships (or lack of) with the pros as you can clearly hit a good drive on occasions. I would suggest you are simply getting frustrated with the inconsistency, gripping it too tight and swinging too hard at it.

Make a decision on what pro you want to work with and before you start a lesson sit down and formulate a plan on what you need to work on, depending on how many lessons you book. Even if it's just a single lesson, tell him what you want and explain the issues with the driver and go in with a clear head and an empty mind as to what he'll show you. After the lesson you simply have to work on the drills and the changes on the range until it starts to seep into the swing and feel natural and resist the temptation if it doesn't go well in practice or the first few rounds to sack it off and resort to what feels right or the old/current swing

 

[G1z1]

You can hit the ball 330 but you used the lesson to gain swing speed? ?

It was a one off the 330 was total distance on a slight down hill par 5 so I’m guessing I maybe just hit a great one and got a nice roll out. I use garmin watch and app to track all my shots but it only gives me total distance and I am usually anywhere from 240 upto 260 it’s rare I go further.
My swing speeds are mid 90s that pro said I should be into 100 easily but 95 is around my maximum for some reason.

 

[VVega]

How many different swings should you have? ?

The driver is the only club in the bag that is expected to hit up on the ball (positive Anngle of Attack) - at least if one wants to maximise the distance - therefore the swing mechanics is rather different to other clubs.

 

[Backache]

The driver is the only club in the bag that is expected to hit up on the ball (positive Anngle of Attack) - at least if one wants to maximise the distance - therefore the swing mechanics is rather different to other clubs.

Are the mechanics necessarily different for that reason?
A swing always has a downward path and an upward one as an arc is the path. The ball contact is in a different place on the arc so the position is different, but does this mean the mechanics are different?

 

[VVega]

Are the mechanics necessarily different for that reason?
A swing always has a downward path and an upward one as an arc is the path. The ball contact is in a different place on the arc so the position is different, but does this mean the mechanics are different?

I’d say yes, as the timing of forces and angles one tries to create are quite different.

Sorry, don’t have the citation index to attach ? but have a look at Martin Borgmeier videos he does talk a bit about his driver swing.

 

[Foxholer]

Are the mechanics necessarily different for that reason?
A swing always has a downward path and an upward one as an arc is the path. The ball contact is in a different place on the arc so the position is different, but does this mean the mechanics are different?

I’d say yes, as the timing of forces and angles one tries to create are quite different.

Sorry, don’t have the citation index to attach ? but have a look at Martin Borgmeier videos he does talk a bit about his driver swing.

I agree with VVega.
For either swing, it's desirable that max clubhead speed is at the point of contact - which for an iron, at least for one on the ground, is at, or just before the bottom of the arc. For the Driver, the point of contact should be slightly after the bottom of the arc, so 'on the up'.
Swing mechanics are also affected by the length of the club.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I agree with VVega.
For either swing, it's desirable that max clubhead speed is at the point of contact - which for an iron, at least for one on the ground, is at, or just before the bottom of the arc. For the Driver, the point of contact should be slightly after the bottom of the arc, so 'on the up'.
Swing mechanics are also affected by the length of the club.

How much extra speed can you generate in the 3 or 4 inches between ball positions for irons to driver?

 

[Foxholer]

How much extra speed can you generate in the 3 or 4 inches between ball positions for irons to driver?

Sod all - if any! But ball position being further forward has very little to generating extra speed! The ball position is all about optimising all strike attributes - including clubhead speed.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Sod all - if any! But ball position being further forward has very little to generating extra speed! The ball position is all about optimising all strike attributes - including clubhead speed.

You said max club speed at point of impact, that implies to me it is different for irons and driver when in actual fact it is bugger all.

 

[Foxholer]

You said max club speed at point of impact, that implies to me it is different for irons and driver when in actual fact it is bugger all.

No. I would have likely stated 'maximise' if that were the case. So you've misinterpreted! Clubhead speed should be maximised at impact - wherever that is!
As further help to visualise....Consider the difference between something like a a 4 or 5-iron from the fairway (say into a Par 4) and the equivalent off a medium height tee - to a Par 3 (where the swing is more forward/Driver-ish).

 

[Deleted member 23270]

No. I would have likely stated 'maximise' if that were the case. So you've misinterpreted! Clubhead speed should be maximised at impact - wherever that is!

Which goes back to my original point. You must be one helluva player if you can differentiate your swing to maximise speed at the different points of impact for irons and driver.