What's the ruling when I moved my marker on green?

[evahakool]

Played in our winter competition today and on one of the greens I tapped my marker down on the green ,as it was a bit damp the marker stuck to the bottom of my putter and I moved a few feet away before it dropped off, I placed it back where I thought it should have been and putted out.

But thinking about it now perhaps I should have took a penalty for this,would this have been correct?

 

[BTatHome]

Nope, no penalty. You were considered to have moved the marker in the act of marking the ball. Simply replace where it was (as close as possible) and continue.

Edit, rules added ...

Rule 20-1 says

If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a.



Decision 20-1/6 Ball-Marker Moved Accidentally by Player in Process of Marking Position of Ball says

Q. A player marked the position of his ball with a coin, lifted the ball and pressed down the coin with the sole of his putter. He walked to the edge of the green and then noticed that the coin had stuck to the sole of the putter. What is the ruling?

A. In this case, the movement of the ball-marker was directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of the ball.
Accordingly, no penalty is incurred and the ball or the ballmarker must be replaced. If the spot where the ball or the ballmarker lay is not known, it must be placed as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole (Rule 20-3c).

 

[evahakool]

Nope, no penalty. You were considered to have moved the marker in the act of marking the ball. Simply replace where it was (as close as possible) and continue.

Edit, rules added ...

Rule 20-1 says




If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a.



Decision 20-1/6 Ball-Marker Moved Accidentally by Player in Process of Marking Position of Ball says

Q. A player marked the position of his ball with a coin, lifted the ball and pressed down the coin with the sole of his putter. He walked to the edge of the green and then noticed that the coin had stuck to the sole of the putter. What is the ruling?

A. In this case, the movement of the ball-marker was directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of the ball.
Accordingly, no penalty is incurred and the ball or the ballmarker must be replaced. If the spot where the ball or the ballmarker lay is not known, it must be placed as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole (Rule 20-3c).

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Slab]

Always struck me as odd that I can move my Ball-Marker by 20 feet and no penalty but if I move my ball 5mm on the fairway its a penalty

I realise the rules are covering two distinct scenarios but fundamentally the reality is that in both the ball-marker was moved unintentionally

 

[rosecott]

Always struck me as odd that I can move my Ball-Marker by 20 feet and no penalty but if I move my ball 5mm on the fairway its a penalty

I realise the rules are covering two distinct scenarios but fundamentally the reality is that in both the ball-marker was moved unintentionally

There is another decision in the decisions book which lies next to the one BT quotes. If, after marking your ball on the green, you inadvertently step on it, it sticks to your shoe and you move it away from the original position, there is a one stroke penalty. The difference in the situations is that, in this instance, the change of position of the marker is not related to the process of marking of the ball's position.

 

[bladeplayer]

Where i do understand the rule i always wondered how tapping down a marker could be attributed to marking ur ball ,

u mark ur ball and lift it , tap down marker , ..... ball was gone so how could it be in the "act of marking"

Just another of those i thought was a bit peculiar

 

[rulefan]

A small plastic marker may be sitting proud of the surface on an irregular patch of grass or ground (not necessarily on the green). The player taps it down to ensure it is stable and will not move. It is continuation of the marking process.
If he didn't and the marker moved (strong wind say), he would be penalised because the ball was not accurately marked.

 

[bladeplayer]

A small plastic marker may be sitting proud of the surface on an irregular patch of grass or ground (not necessarily on the green). The player taps it down to ensure it is stable and will not move. It is continuation of the marking process.
If he didn't and the marker moved (strong wind say), he would be penalised because the ball was not accurately marked.

Rule 20-1 says

If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a.



Decision 20-1/6 Ball-Marker Moved Accidentally by Player in Process of Marking Position of Ball says

Q. A player marked the position of his ball with a coin, lifted the ball and pressed down the coin with the sole of his putter. He walked to the edge of the green and then noticed that the coin had stuck to the sole of the putter. What is the ruling?

A. In this case, the movement of the ball-marker was directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of the ball.
Accordingly, no penalty is incurred and the ball or the ballmarker must be replaced. If the spot where the ball or the ballmarker lay is not known, it must be placed as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole (Rule 20-3c).

In the rules it keeps referring to, no, actualy stating the specific act of marking , to me you have already completed marking the ball before you lift it.. you mark your ball then lift ? no ?

It does seem strange if the wind blew your marker away your penalised but if you move it , its not


Like i say not questioning it , its just one i always found as strange

 

[Foxholer]

In the rules it keeps referring to, no, actualy stating the specific act of marking , to me you have already completed marking the ball before you lift it.. you mark your ball then lift ? no ?

It does seem strange if the wind blew your marker away your penalised but if you move it , its not


Like i say not questioning it , its just one i always found as strange

Defining when the 'act of marking' is 'complete' should sort the issue out - and, I believe, tapping a marker down is within the 'act of marking'. A reasonable question though. A subsequent tapping down, if asked to ensure it was flat, would not be part of 'the act of marking' though, so, I believe, if moved would involve a Penalty.

 

[rulefan]

A small plastic marker may be sitting proud of the surface on an irregular patch of grass or ground (not necessarily on the green). The player taps it down to ensure it is stable and will not move. It is continuation of the marking process.
If he didn't and the marker moved (strong wind say), he would be penalised because the ball was not accurately marked.

My apologies. The coloured statement is of course wrong.

 

[Region3]

An extension of this that cropped up in a competition at our place this year, is that dropping your ball/marker which hits and moves your marker/ball, does not count as part of the marking process even if you are bending over to mark/replace your ball and only a few inches away from the ground.

Q. What is meant by the phrase “directly attributable to the specific act” in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a?

A. In Rule 20-1 the phrase means the specific act of placing a ball-marker behind the ball, placing a club to the side of the ball, or lifting the ball such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball-marker or the club, or the lifting of the ball causes the ball or the ball-marker to move. In Rule 20-3a the phrase means the specific act of placing or replacing a ball in front of a ball-marker, placing a club to the side of a ball-marker or lifting the ball-marker such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball or club, or the lifting of the ball-marker causes the ball or the ball-marker to move.
Under either Rule, any accidental movement of the ball or the ball-marker which occurs before or after this specific act, such as dropping the ball or ball-marker, regardless of the height from which it was dropped, is not considered to be "directly attributable" and would result in the player incurring a penalty stroke.

This was relayed to our pro and committee before the card was signed and they decided it wasn't a penalty.

Who'd have thunk it.

 

[BTatHome]

Ian Poulter did exactly that a few years ago, and accepted the penalty.

 

[rulefan]

Ian Poulter did exactly that a few years ago, and accepted the penalty.

Her couldn't very well refuse it.

 

[McFade]

Defining when the 'act of marking' is 'complete' should sort the issue out - and, I believe, tapping a marker down is within the 'act of marking'. A reasonable question though. A subsequent tapping down, if asked to ensure it was flat, would not be part of 'the act of marking' though, so, I believe, if moved would involve a Penalty.

Are You shure about the marked statement?
I was told by very knowledgeable people, that the act of tapping down a marker was always part of the marking procedure - even if done later.
So the question, if an action is "directly attributable" to the act of marking refers to the kind of action and not to the moment, when the player acts.

 

[Foxholer]

Are You shure about the marked statement?
I was told by very knowledgeable people, that the act of tapping down a marker was always part of the marking procedure - even if done later.
So the question, if an action is "directly attributable" to the act of marking refers to the kind of action and not to the moment, when the player acts.

Er. No, not sure. I now believe (after reading Decision 20-1/6.5) that there would be no penalty - unless done by someone else without permission of the Player whose marker it is/was. That should also resolve Bladeplayer's 'issue' about tapping down not actually being part of the act of marking - by defining it as such!