what would you like to see changed about the handicap system in the UK

[garyinderry]

One of the down sides of the whole handicap system IMO that encourages people not to improve as they can still be competitive without any effort.

good point! my brothers mate has played off 21 for years. he never practices but turns up every weekend and plays in the comps. there is no incentive for him to improve as he can, on his day put in a winning score from that handicap.

he takes the mick when he sees me giving the stieve g 5 hand as that's how many comps( he calls them majors) he has won!

ive won two dropping 12 shots! :rofl:

 

[Matty]

i don't agree that not having a max handicap does discourage people from taking up the game. When i started playing, i didn't even know there was a handicap system. in fact the first game i played was a Cricket club Jolly and no one was any good so we all played off scratch, didn't spoil my enjoyment one bit. One of the down sides of the whole handicap system IMO that encourages people not to improve as they can still be competitive without any effort.

Perhaps they'll give it a try but if you are soon completely aware that you are never even going to get close to 'competing' and standing a chance of winning a competition now and then are you going to stick around or look for a new sport?

 

[Matty]

when I was a kid I didn't even know people played in comps. I didn't know about stableford until I played in a society in 2008.

before that I would play a handful of games in the summer and counted every shot.


I have never come across a "skilled new player". these don't really exist. some take to it quicker than others.

people very rarely stay at 28 handicap forever! with a little practice and better course management most 20 handicaps could play to 18 even if they believe it or not!

When I was a kid I knew nothing at all about golf - not sure that it makes any difference at all to the current debate about handicapping.

I'd agree that people don't stay at 28, some don't even start there in the first place. Provided you put cards in during competitions you'll have amoving handicap too but slashing 10 shots from a starting handicap for new starters who really are not great to my mind is still goin g t turn a lot of new potential golfers away from the game.

 

[garyinderry]

here is an argument for 18 shots


1.240 in for 4shots
2.389 in 5 shots
3.38 in 3 shots
4.275 in 4 shots
5.24 in 3 shots
6.254 in 4 shots
7.229 in 4 shots
8.0 in 3 shots
9.262 in 4 shots.


that's 150 yards off the tee! its really not all that difficult when you look at these figures in black and white.


this is the yardage left on the front 9 at my old club from the comp tees if you learn to hit a 5 iron 150 yards. play smart golf and you only need 1 shot a hole!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Perhaps they'll give it a try but if you are soon completely aware that you are never even going to get close to 'competing' and standing a chance of winning a competition now and then are you going to stick around or look for a new sport?

I'll never understand the argument that people only play golf to win comps regardless of whether they are actually competent golfers or not. Surely people get more satisfaction by improving their ability than "beating" better players due to being given an artificial advantage?

 

[Slab]

I'll never understand the argument that people only play golf to win comps regardless of whether they are actually competent golfers or not. Surely people get more satisfaction by improving their ability than "beating" better players due to being given an artificial advantage?

But the improvement satisfaction of ones own ability has no bearing on competitive golf against a field of players

There are a group of golfers who play for themselves against the course for self improvement only but they don't need any handicap at all

 

[FairwayDodger]

But the improvement satisfaction of ones own ability has no bearing on competitive golf against a field of players

There are a group of golfers who play for themselves against the course for self improvement only but they don't need any handicap at all

I can see the argument that they wouldn't bother entering comps, but give up the sport altogether? I just don't believe that.

 

[beck9965]

I think there could be improvements to the system, I do like the way the USGA take into account the difficulty of the course, for instance a 28hcp on a tough tight course should be better than a 28hcp on a relatively easy open course so I think we need to take into account how all UK handicaps travel from course to course.

 

[Loz1607]

I think there could be improvements to the system, I do like the way the USGA take into account the difficulty of the course, for instance a 28hcp on a tough tight course should be better than a 28hcp on a relatively easy open course so I think we need to take into account how all UK handicaps travel from course to course.

Surely thats no different than the SSS of a course thats used here?

Does the handicap system take account of previous handicaps? I used to play of 8 but havent played much in 4 years and now looking at getting back into palying properly, however if I put 3 new cards in on current form, I would be well above 8, although withing a few months of practice I will be back to that level. I would be happy to go back in at 8 and work to improve my game to get back to that level to be competitive, rather than get a few 'easy' wins!

 

[delc]

Surely thats no different than the SSS of a course thats used here?

Does the handicap system take account of previous handicaps? I used to play of 8 but havent played much in 4 years and now looking at getting back into palying properly, however if I put 3 new cards in on current form, I would be well above 8, although withing a few months of practice I will be back to that level. I would be happy to go back in at 8 and work to improve my game to get back to that level to be competitive, rather than get a few 'easy' wins!

SSS only relates to how a scratch handicapper might play the course. If there are a lot of hazards and trees, it might be relatively more difficult for an 18 or 28 handicap player. That is the idea behind the slope rating.

 

[Pro Zach]

Gross on each division would again narrow the field in each division with people in the higher levels of each division having small chance of winning

Gross prizes will automatically narrow down a field to a certain percentage who can win

Net prizes mean everyone has the same equal chance of winning

I get most enjoyment out of playing with a mixture of ability regardless of ability

The system allows for a nett prize for anyone who wants to play for that. But it also allows people who want to compete fairly on a level playing field the chance to do so.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The system allows for a nett prize for anyone who wants to play for that. But it also allows people who want to compete fairly on a level playing field the chance to do so.

And isn't the beauty of amatuer club golf - we all compete together regardless of ability ?

 

[FairwayDodger]

And isn't the beauty of amatuer club golf - we all compete together regardless of ability ?

Ignoring whether that's a good thing or not, I think pro Zach has nicely summarised the elusive point I had failed to describe. I.e. The handicap system might allow a 1 handicap and 28 handicap to play a match where the outcome is uncertain but that's not the same as a competitive match.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ignoring whether that's a good thing or not, I think pro Zach has nicely summarised the elusive point I had failed to describe. I.e. The handicap system might allow a 1 handicap and 28 handicap to play a match where the outcome is uncertain but that's not the same as a competitive match.

A match between two different HC's can most certainly be a competitive match - even a 1 HC and 28 HC

Being competitive is always reliant on the ability.

If anything the HC system allows two people of differing abilities to be competitive in a match against each other

 

[Matty]

I'll never understand the argument that people only play golf to win comps regardless of whether they are actually competent golfers or not. Surely people get more satisfaction by improving their ability than "beating" better players due to being given an artificial advantage?

That's not really what I meant, which is why I put 'competing' in quote marks.

If the par is 72 on a given course and the proposed 18 maximum handicap is applied then what is essentially being stated is that I should be expected to successfully navigate the 18 holes in 90 strikes of the ball.

If I try this many times (read years into this) and consistently score closer to the 100 mark then please explain to me exactly what enjoyment I am likely to be getting from doing this other than the fresh air and occasionally playing when the sun might be shining on this usually damp nation we inhabit.

I tend to believe that one should be able to play to, or better than, your handicap only 2 or 3 occasions a year. Not every week. If you play to your handicap every single time you play then your handicap is artificially high.

The issue with handicapping is not the current system but that many players seem to be able to maintain a higher handicap than would be expected if they are playing to it frequently.

 

[Pro Zach]

And isn't the beauty of amatuer club golf - we all compete together regardless of ability ?

No: but in what way does the system stop that?

 

[FairwayDodger]

A match between two different HC's can most certainly be a competitive match - even a 1 HC and 28 HC

Being competitive is always reliant on the ability.

If anything the HC system allows two people of differing abilities to be competitive in a match against each other

I know I'm wasting my time since this point is clearly lost on you, perhaps it's too subtle. However, at the risk of overstating things and making a highly contentious statement.....

The handicap system works well the closer in ability the two players are. However, there comes a point at which the difference in ability is so vast and number of strokes required to address that difference so large that the match ceases to be competitive because, in a sense, the two players are no longer playing the same sport.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I know I'm wasting my time since this point is clearly lost on you, perhaps it's too subtle. However, at the risk of overstating things and making a highly contentious statement.....

The handicap system works well the closer in ability the two players are. However, there comes a point at which the difference in ability is so vast and number of strokes required to address that difference so large that the match ceases to be competitive because, in a sense, the two players are no longer playing the same sport.

Do you mean a bit like an FA cup match when a non league team full of part timers plays against Man City - vast vast difference in abilities yet it is still competitive

Played in matches as a high handicapper against a low HC and vice verses , played against fellow Cat 1's etc - every single match is different and unless I have missed something the level of competiviness between the players hasn't always been determined by the HC - have had a scratch match against a 3 HC and won 7&5 and the match was nowhere near competitive - very one sided , have had a match against a 26 HC taken to the 19th

You are both playing golf regardless of HC or ability - the level of golf from each person will be different but I hope you are we not saying that the high HC isn't really playing the same sport - that's not very fair.

The overall feeling I get ( not just from you ) but from a certain percentage of low HC they show a level of HC snobbery towards the higher HC's. For people who feel that way then I would suggest either turn pro and play with out HC or avoid all HC comps within the amatuer game.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No: but in what way does the system stop that?

So it's not great that we all get to compete within the same field ?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Do you mean a bit like an FA cup match when a non league team full of part timers plays against Man City - vast vast difference in abilities yet it is still competitive

Played in matches as a high handicapper against a low HC and vice verses , played against fellow Cat 1's etc - every single match is different and unless I have missed something the level of competiviness between the players hasn't always been determined by the HC - have had a scratch match against a 3 HC and won 7&5 and the match was nowhere near competitive - very one sided , have had a match against a 26 HC taken to the 19th

You are both playing golf regardless of HC or ability - the level of golf from each person will be different but I hope you are we not saying that the high HC isn't really playing the same sport - that's not very fair.

The overall feeling I get ( not just from you ) but from a certain percentage of low HC they show a level of HC snobbery towards the higher HC's. For people who feel that way then I would suggest either turn pro and play with out HC or avoid all HC comps within the amatuer game.

But what do I do if I feel the same way as FD, but I'm a high handicapper? I would gain minimal satisfaction from beating a 2 handicapper. Having played with many low handicappers, and see the way they play, then I would agree with FD and say that it's a different game. Drive, iron 2 putt is a lot different to drive duff iron, iron, chip putt/2 putt.