What Would You Change About the WHS?

[wjemather]

What stops members entering GP cards on the EG app when members are playing in team comps

Clubs should switch off their tees on the WHS admin platform (dotgolf) when such comps are being played and no GP rounds should be submitted.
If that doesn't happen, such intents/scores should be deleted by the committee - same as they would be via any ISV.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Clubs should switch off their tees on the WHS admin platform (dotgolf) when such comps are being played and no GP rounds should be submitted.
If that doesn't happen, such intents/scores should be deleted by the committee - same as they would be via any ISV.

But what about those that don’t enter the comp and just playing social golf

It’s easier to check on the ISV when you have a comp created

 

[wjemather]

But what about those that don’t enter the comp and just playing social golf

It’s easier to check on the ISV when you have a comp created

Casual golf mixed in with a 4BBB or team comp is not a common occurrence.

I'm in favour of facilitating all options for players, and discussed it with the club concerned; they considered enabling ISV submission but decided against it.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Casual golf mixed in with a 4BBB or team comp is not a common occurrence.

I'm in favour of facilitating all options for players, and discussed it with the club concerned; they considered enabling ISV submission but decided against it.

So what about clubs where it as an occurence

Our comp tee sheets finish at 12 after that you can play any format and also still play in the comp

Any empty tee during the comp can be filled with people playing social golf

You need to stop making definitive statements

 

[clubchamp98]

Because Clubs via moaning members have brought in allsorts of rules to stop them entering Comps, ie,

New player gets initial handicap, for example 40, and is then told they can’t enter comps for X, Y, Z, reasons or if they want to they must play off 28, 24, 18 etc.

I understand it’s to stop the bandits etc, but what about the genuine high handicaps.

Old boy has been a member for 30yrs plus, handicap has dwindled and now he has restrictions put on him to enter Comps.

Both can enter for handicap purposes but are restricted from winning Comp unless playing off lower handicap.

That’s got nothing to do with WHS.
It’s a condition of competition and all clubs are different.
Ours is 32 by the way.
Which is a lot better than the old 28.

We’re talking about the handicap system.

 

[wjemather]

So what about clubs where it as an occurence

As per #61, if GP score submission remains enabled for any reason (for example, when casual play is mixed in during a competition) any invalid intents/scores should be deleted by the committee.

 

[PaulMdj]

That’s got nothing to do with WHS.
It’s a condition of competition and all clubs are different.
Ours is 32 by the way.
Which is a lot better than the old 28.

We’re talking about the handicap system.

Who brought in Handicaps for men to 54?

From the WHS Launch:

• A minimal number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap; with the number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap being 54 holes from any combination of 18-hole and 9-hole rounds (with some discretion available for national or regional associations)

It is the Club bringing in the CoC because of high scores

 

[clubchamp98]

Who brought in Handicaps for men to 54?

That happened before WHS I think.
But what’s that got to do with it.

 

[wjemather]

That’s got nothing to do with WHS.
It’s a condition of competition and all clubs are different.
Ours is 32 by the way.
Which is a lot better than the old 28.

We’re talking about the handicap system.

Lots of clubs still have (some) competition limits of 18 or 24, set when the system maximum handicap was increased to 28 in the 1980s.

 

[PaulMdj]

That happened before WHS I think.
But what’s that got to do with it.

See edit

 

[clubchamp98]

Who brought in Handicaps for men to 54?

From the WHS Launch:

• A minimal number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap; with the number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap being 54 holes from any combination of 18-hole and 9-hole rounds (with some discretion available for national or regional associations)

It is the Club bringing in the CoC because of high scores

I know it is but that’s got nothing to do with WHS.

Clubs set their entry criteria to comps.

But that’s got nothing to do with your handicap at all.

There’s lots of comps I can’t enter because my handicaps not low enough.
I accept that .

So why are high handicappers disadvantaged under WHS.
Not clubs COC WHS?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

As per #61, if GP score submission remains enabled for any reason (for example, when casual play is mixed in during a competition) any invalid intents/scores should be deleted by the committee.

Or how about just remove the EG from use at home clubs - nice and easy

But then the thread was just asking people what they would change - it wasn’t another excuse for you to defend it to the hilt once again

 

[clubchamp98]

Lots of clubs still have (some) competition limits of 18 or 24, set when the system maximum handicap was increased to 28 in the 1980s.

I am aware of that.
But I was saying “ condition of competition “ has nothing to do with your allocated handicap.

You might not get your full allowance in the comp but that’s the clubs doing not WHS.
So you choose to play or you don’t.
Just like I can’t get in scratch comps.

 

[PaulMdj]

I am aware of that.
But I was saying “ condition of competition “ has nothing to do with your allocated handicap.

You might not get your full allowance in the comp but that’s the clubs doing not WHS.
So you choose to play or you don’t.
Just like I can’t get in scratch comps.

I know it is but that’s got nothing to do with WHS.

Clubs set their entry criteria to comps.

But that’s got nothing to do with your handicap at all.

There’s lots of comps I can’t enter because my handicaps not low enough.
I accept that .

So why are high handicappers disadvantaged under WHS.
Not clubs COC WHS?

These changes have been brought in because of the allowance under WHS.

If a bloke is off 40 under the WHS at your place, why are you restricting them to 32? Your saying it’s not a fair system for low handicappers then ignoring it and taking even more shots of a high handicapper?

 

[wjemather]

Or how about just remove the EG from use at home clubs - nice and easy

What does removing MyEG access at home clubs achieve?

But then the thread was just asking people what they would change - it wasn’t another excuse for you to defend it to the hilt once again

I found your suggestion interesting and simply commented that at least one club takes the reverse view to your suggestion. I wasn't defending anything.
You then asked questions; I answered, without defending anything. {{shrug}}

 

[clubchamp98]

These changes have been brought in because of the allowance under WHS.

If a bloke is off 40 under the WHS at your place, why are you restricting them to 32? Your saying it’s not a fair system for low handicappers then ignoring it and taking even more shots of a high handicapper?

I’ll say it again “ that’s not WHS it’s CoC”

Whs has given him 40 .
It’s the club telling him he can only have 32.

There is a difference.

 

[wjemather]

These changes have been brought in because of the allowance under WHS.

If a bloke is off 40 under the WHS at your place, why are you restricting them to 32? Your saying it’s not a fair system for low handicappers then ignoring it and taking even more shots of a high handicapper?

I'd guess that in most cases, these competition limits predate WHS, and are often tied to former system maximums.

 

[Swango1980]

Or how about just remove the EG from use at home clubs - nice and easy

But then the thread was just asking people what they would change - it wasn’t another excuse for you to defend it to the hilt once again

What problem does prohibiting MyEG from home clubs solve?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'd guess that in most cases, these competition limits predate WHS, and are often tied to former system maximums.

Yes ours was raised from 24 to 32 for board comps when WHS came in .

But WHS has nothing to do with COC that’s what I’m trying to explain !
It’s clubs who set limits not the handicap system.

 

[Dunesman]

It doesnt need a complete revamp.

Much of WHS is either good, or the same as the previous system. In the end, half of it is much ado about nothing and comes to the same result : a handicap much the same as previously...in the main (the non main, see below).
A quarter of it is to the good : CR, Slope and CR-Par.
The final quarter has the points at issue which can really be distilled to just two.
1) That casual scores through an app, rather than a more tightly regulated competition structure can, and are encouraged to, form part of ones handicap development. This is the perceived Cheats Charter element. I would consider overestimated by its critics in its negative impact. But they are coloured by Pt.2 below. This element is a culture shock. UK golfers may acclimatise to it. Though maybe not, as it is in conflict with the competition structure golf landscape so many of us are used to.
2) Handicap volatility in WHS is too high, and incompatible with competition based golf. This is its biggest flaw by far, and also prompting the mistrust with finger pointing at deliberate misuse of Pt1 above as the cause.

Normal service can be easily restored, by either :
a) change the soft cap to 0.7, and the hard cap to 1.5. The would restore the key point of low anchoring of handicaps that is essential for fields of 20 to 150 golfers of mixed handicaps to compete as we did previously. Volatile handicaps are not a problem in sequences of one off matches or casual games American style. It even suits it, promoting close contests in one v one play. But large fields require a much more tightened scope to beat ones handicap.
or
b) apply a 0.85 factor for competitions with more that 10 entrants. This is blunter at the upper end, and a less satisfactory fix that the more root cause fix that is option 1.

Has England Golf made any recent comment on the matter? Has anyone forwarded the links to the discussions of these pages ?