What rule did Rory break?

Jigger

Club Champion
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,814
Visit site
Not seeing much of an explanation on this. Could the experienced rule folk on here tell me what ruling he played, what it has changed to and what rule number it is please. Thank you very much in advance oh wise ones. 🙂
 
D

Deleted member 15344

Guest
Not seeing much of an explanation on this. Could the experienced rule folk on here tell me what ruling he played, what it has changed to and what rule number it is please. Thank you very much in advance oh wise ones. 🙂

He took unplayable relief keeping the ball in line with the flag and going back on that line which was fine - but when he marked his spot he then took a club length to the right from that spot which is not allowed.

If he had taken the drop at the point before taking the extra club length then he would have been ok


The way he did drop was allowed a few years back
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
1,852
Visit site
As above, he was taking back-on-the-line relief for an unplayable ball (Rule 19). Effective January 1, 2023, back-on-the-line relief requires that the ball be dropped on an extension of the straight line formed by the original position of the ball or reference point and the flagstick. If the ball is not dropped on that line, there is no relief area for the ball to come to rest within, so everywhere is a wrong place (Rule 14.7). When he played the ball he played from a wrong place, incurring the general penalty (two strokes) in addition to the one stroke for unplayable.
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
1,852
Visit site
When did the process Rory used come in..?
I believe that the intent of the Rules has always been to drop on the line when using back-on-the-line relief. However, the changes in 2019 seemed to create a loophole which would permit dropping within the one club-length relief area created by a reference point on that line. This was changed in the 2023 Rules code such that the relief area does not exist until the ball is dropped on the line. Once the ball is dropped on the line, the relief area created is one club-length from where the ball first struck the line, including forward towards the hole.
 

Jigger

Club Champion
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,814
Visit site
Thanks everyone. I was concerned that I may have been doing something wrong today but I hadn’t 🙂
 

bladeplayer

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
9,142
Location
Emerald Isle
Visit site
Which is rather unusual, as I'm sure pretty well everyone will have 'not nearer the hole' ingrained in their mind
Yes this will confuse people , same applies in a drop zone , if u drop and it bounces forward , its in play once it stays in DZ . Had this "discussion" once aswel .
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,753
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
When did the process Rory used come in..?
Asx per Rulie .

It did get a specific mention in the Clarifications in 2023

Rule 14:


Rule 14.3:


14.3b(4)/1 – General Penalty Applies Under Rule 14.7a



In relation to the final bullet in Rule 14.3b(4), if a player gets the general penalty for making a stroke without correcting their mistake, the general penalty applies under Rule 14.7a for having played from a wrong place.


For example, when taking back-on-the-line relief, a player drops their ball almost one club-length to the side of the line. The ball is in a wrong place irrespective of where it comes to rest, even if it comes to rest on the line. The ball must be dropped again to avoid penalty under Rule 14.7a.


In stroke play, if the player makes a stroke from the wrong place, the player would need to correct this mistake if playing from a wrong place was a serious breach. (Added April 2023)
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,288
Visit site
We have (for the first time in club history I believe) defined two quite large Penalty Areas (one for each of two ponds we have created to help manage flooding from adjacent farmland). Our Handicap & Comps Secretary (a R&A Level 2 referee) is running a rules session next Wednesday that I’m going to as he’s going to explain the options available to us if our ball goes into them.

We are doing it on the course which will make it very real and relevant. The PAs are between adjacent holes so all relief options will be available. As none of us members have ever had to concern ourselves with relief from defined (red staked) PAs there could be fun. I want to be informed and have already been reading up Rule 17 and there are things in it that I had no idea of.
 

backwoodsman

Tour Winner
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
6,784
Location
sarf Lunnon
Visit site
We have (for the first time in club history I believe) defined two quite large Penalty Areas (one for each of two ponds we have created to help manage flooding from adjacent farmland). Our Handicap & Comps Secretary (a R&A Level 2 referee) is running a rules session next Wednesday that I’m going to as he’s going to explain the options available to us if our ball goes into them.

We are doing it on the course which will make it very real and relevant. The PAs are between adjacent holes so all relief options will be available. As none of us members have ever had to concern ourselves with relief from defined (red staked) PAs there could be fun. I want to be informed and have already been reading up Rule 17 and there are things in it that I had no idea of.
??

How can you have played golf for as long as you have - and not know the options for a penalty area?
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,059
Location
Bristol
Visit site
We have (for the first time in club history I believe) defined two quite large Penalty Areas (one for each of two ponds we have created to help manage flooding from adjacent farmland). Our Handicap & Comps Secretary (a R&A Level 2 referee) is running a rules session next Wednesday that I’m going to as he’s going to explain the options available to us if our ball goes into them.

We are doing it on the course which will make it very real and relevant. The PAs are between adjacent holes so all relief options will be available. As none of us members have ever had to concern ourselves with relief from defined (red staked) PAs there could be fun. I want to be informed and have already been reading up Rule 17 and there are things in it that I had no idea of.
What have you been doing when you play at other courses with these?
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,288
Visit site
What have you been doing when you play at other courses with these?
I myself thought I knew my options when hitting into a yellow or red staked water hazard…but truth is reading Rule 17 I may have missed an option or indeed sometimes got it wrong.

And as I don’t play many courses other than my own, certainly not many since 2019, I can’t actually recall the last time I had to take relief from a water hazard / penalty area.

But I can certainly see much confusion and debate arising amongst members at my club with the new penalty areas. So for instance on Saturday when playing one of the holes with the new PAs I raised a quite likely PA scenario with my four ball - none of them knew all their options.
 
Last edited:

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,288
Visit site
??

How can you have played golf for as long as you have - and not know the options for a penalty area?
The option I did not know was one available to me in the scenario where my ball is in a PA (water hazard) but playable; I choose to play it as it lies but don’t get out of the PA. You may know the penalty relief option that is then available to me but that I did not know.

And hey…maybe I don’t (or only very rarely) hit my ball into water hazards 😉 - especially as my club didn’t have any that were really in play for me. If I hit a ball into the one we had, I knew my options, though in practice not all options available under the rules were available to me.

But all of the above is rather besides the point for me. I want to fully understand the rules for PAs as they will apply to the new PAs my club has defined. I want to be fully informed, as much to help others understand their options as to help myself.
 
Last edited:

IanMcC

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
898
Visit site
I have not seen the footage, but completely understand the ruling. I have read that taking one club length enabled him to avoid playing round a tree. Surely this could be considered a serious breach?
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
1,852
Visit site
Apparently not by the referees on site, they have better information than those writing about what they perceive happened!
 
Top