Which ball to hit ?

[Swango1980]

you can identify your ball, both of them, just not which is which, so taking the penalty and playing either one seems reasonable to me.

Sounds an interesting rule, and generally a reasonable one.

But, would be interesting if both balls were found fairly close together. However, one was just in the open, nice lie with a free shot to the green. Another just managed to make the horrific cabbage, no real place to take a decent drop and only option but to really go back to the tee. Then you have 2 situations:

1. CAN Identify both balls, and original was in the cabbage. Player has no real choice but to go back to the tee, hit an awful shot from there, and end up with a horrible score (let's give them a 10+)
2. CANNOT identify which ball is which. Player chooses ball in the open, plays 4th to the green, 2 putts for a 6.

So, there is certainly a situation where not being able to identify both balls could become a big advantage. If the player managed to get a 6 as above, and ended up halving or winning the hole, as their opponent I'd be pretty miffed given they managed to get away with not actually being able to identify their ball. It would have seem logical to me that the player must be able to identify their ball, if not go back and play 5th. I get it is a time saver, but how often would this situation actually happen? Rarely. Clearly it was a surprise that the players original ball was in the same area as provisional (further up). If a player hit their provisional in the same area as their original, surely they should normally play a 2nd provisional anyway, for same reason they hit their first. Given it was match play, player probably thought there was no point, which is fine. I doubt many players would be angry about having to forfeit the hole if they cannot identify their ball, that is their responsibility.

 

[Orikoru]

Sounds an interesting rule, and generally a reasonable one.

But, would be interesting if both balls were found fairly close together. However, one was just in the open, nice lie with a free shot to the green. Another just managed to make the horrific cabbage, no real place to take a decent drop and only option but to really go back to the tee. Then you have 2 situations:

1. CAN Identify both balls, and original was in the cabbage. Player has no real choice but to go back to the tee, hit an awful shot from there, and end up with a horrible score (let's give them a 10+)
2. CANNOT identify which ball is which. Player chooses ball in the open, plays 4th to the green, 2 putts for a 6.

So, there is certainly a situation where not being able to identify both balls could become a big advantage. If the player managed to get a 6 as above, and ended up halving or winning the hole, as their opponent I'd be pretty miffed given they managed to get away with not actually being able to identify their ball. It would have seem logical to me that the player must be able to identify their ball, if not go back and play 5th. I get it is a time saver, but how often would this situation actually happen? Rarely. Clearly it was a surprise that the players original ball was in the same area as provisional (further up). If a player hit their provisional in the same area as their original, surely they should normally play a 2nd provisional anyway, for same reason they hit their first. Given it was match play, player probably thought there was no point, which is fine. I doubt many players would be angry about having to forfeit the hole if they cannot identify their ball, that is their responsibility.

As I said earlier, this is what I expected the rule to be. It's our responsibility to be able to identify our ball, which is why we put our own markings on them and so on, but I thought that would include being able to identify which is which if you hit two. And I thought the same as you, the rule being as it is gives you chance of choosing which ball is in the better position. I suppose it's not quite an advantage though because you are guaranteed to be playing your 4th shot, rather than your 2nd.

 

[Swango1980]

As I said earlier, this is what I expected the rule to be. It's our responsibility to be able to identify our ball, which is why we put our own markings on them and so on, but I thought that would include being able to identify which is which if you hit two. And I thought the same as you, the rule being as it is gives you chance of choosing which ball is in the better position. I suppose it's not quite an advantage though because you are guaranteed to be playing your 4th shot, rather than your 2nd.

Generally not. However, as per my scenario, it could be a big advantage depending on the lie of both balls and which of those was actually your original. If lies / positions are fairly similar, no real issue. If lies / positions to pin are very different, it could potentially become a big advantage not being able to identify your original and provisional, depending on which ball was actually the original.

 

[rulie]

In previous Decisions books, it's covered in Decision 27/11. For two balls through the green or in a bunker, it says, "One could argue that both balls are lost. However, it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee, playing 5, when the player has found both balls but does not know which is the original and which the provisional. Accordingly, the player must select one of the balls, treat it as his provisional ball and abandon the other>"
As noted, it was an "equity" decision. (Maybe treating both balls as lost would be an appropriate penalty for the player's stupidity? )

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Well, you should be playing your original with no penalty, but because you can't distinguish it from the provo, you pay the penalty of stroke and distance for not knowing.

Depends how long you spent looking for the first ball. If it's over 3 minutes then it's "lost" anyway.

 

[rulefan]

Depends how long you spent looking for the first ball. If it's over 3 minutes then it's "lost" anyway.

?? So how do you know which ball to play as you can't play the 'unidentified' original?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

?? So how do you know which ball to play as you can't play the 'unidentified' original?

Best judgement by the player.

 

[rulefan]

Best judgement by the player.

But isn't that what happens now? The player makes a decision.