What loft should I have my driver set at?

[turkish]

After years of using gc2 without hmt and trackman I was sure I was always hitting a degree down and so had my driver set at 8 degrees to keep the spin down. Now I have been using gcquad I realise I actually hit up anywhere between 3 and 6 degrees.

It’s also showed how inconsistent my swing is and path, strike, face angle, AoA all vary wildly, albeit there’s a pattern.

Path is the thing I need to work on most can be anywhere between 7 degrees out to in to 3 when it’s bad. With extreme effort I can get to between 0-2 out to in but then brings other issues with face angle. I’d like to get to in to out.

Spin is fairly consistent at 2000-2500
SS fairly consistent 101-103 now
Strike usually toe and SF 1.4-1.48

Face angle is where I find varying but mainly closed to target but with swing path varying so wildly it can be either shape.

My main question though is should I be playing higher loft than 8 degrees with a 3-6 degree AoA?

What else should I be thinking of.

 

[the_coach]

real difficult to say without seeing the swing also without knowing a few more launch #'s

you have your dynamic loft & launch angle #'s ?

very possible you could be a tad better off at around 10º (static loft on driver) - that depends a bunch on what range of dynamic loft #'s at impact you normally achieve as well as the LA #'s - & how that affects spin loft

given the issues with face angle control likely there's something funky goin on with the grip hold

path & AoA variance though not huge could have a bunch of stuff that plays in to it - like say losing posture angles/weight pressure transfer/too much lateral sway

 

[turkish]

Hi coach,

I only have the one good hit I took a pic of and dynamic loft 20.4. Launch 13.5. Backspin 1999. 2.9 in to out. Hitting up 4.7. Sf 1.48. Carry 250. Toe up 8.3 and middle hit. Face closed 3.4

Obviously that was Probably my Sunday best though.

Will probably get averages over next few weeks

 

[the_coach]

Hi coach,

I only have the one good hit I took a pic of and dynamic loft 20.4. Launch 13.5. Backspin 1999. 2.9 in to out. Hitting up 4.7. Sf 1.48. Carry 250. Toe up 8.3 and middle hit. Face closed 3.4

Obviously that was Probably my Sunday best though.

Will probably get averages over next few weeks

in your lessons would have a chat with the Pro about the dynamic loft you are getting with the driver if that number correct it's a tad high - maybes in the change to get the +AoA there's just a tad too much of trying to 'add up' with the hands - & just see what he has to say

if you practice away from the LM with driver would use a can of spray to check where the strike location are - so they don't get a tad too high on the vertical axis off the face

what am meaning by trying to add too much 'up' with real active hand action could be also part of the reason that face angle control tends to be a tad hit & miss

the up or +AoA of a swing motion more there in a high end swing is through the way the legs/hips & upper body move along with the hands & arms - as opposed to trying to hit up with the clubhead

would chat to your Pro about it get his take - as he's doin the one on one lessons

 

[turkish]

Thanks coach yeah that makes sense as my coach been working on me having hands further ahead at impact to deloft the club. I’m guessing adding more loft not the way to go then as will only increase the DL too.

Strike location always between middle and high toe. Used to be a bad heel striker but have worked hard away from that. The ones out the toe a lot more manageable though.

 

[bobmac]

It’s also showed how inconsistent my swing is and path, strike, face angle, AoA all vary wildly, albeit there’s a pattern.

Path is the thing I need to work on most can be anywhere between 7 degrees out to in to 3 when it’s bad. With extreme effort I can get to between 0-2 out to in but then brings other issues with face angle. I’d like to get to in to out.

This is my concern.
If you've been swinging out to in for so long, changing the path to in to out may prove very difficult and can take a long time.

 

[turkish]

Hi Bob, you're absolutely right- I heard Pete Cowan talking previously on what he was working on with Henrik Stenson and he said the same things 10 years ago as tendencies always come back.

However I have came from always being a massive downward hitting, heely striker and high spinner of the ball to relatively decent numbers. The problem is it isn't always there and those tendencies creep back in when my driving is off. Even when I hit a nice piercing fade I still hate the shape as in my eye it tells me a slice is round the corner at some point.

Had my lesson today and couldn't get on the quad just the GC2 but he just stuck a bottle back from the tee down the target line and displayed how much I was clipping it. So have a couple of drills to neutralise path a bit which I'll work on. He said he'd leave loft as is until we get everything else a bit more consistent then we can tinker for optimum setting which makes sense.

found some interesting stats on Jon Rahm after coaches advice:

His dynamic loft is 15.7 with driver but that's at 118MPH SS. I think all things being equal the ball would drop out the sky sooner for me with 15MPH less SS, albeit my spin higher at 2000 his only 1645.

Is there such a thing as an optimum swing for a swing speed of 101-103MPH?

 

[the_coach]

what is the driver make ?

& what make of shaft?

what is the swingweight?

what weight shaft & flex?

 

[Foxholer]

I'm normally fairly much a 'numbers' guy, but I'd seriously suggest YOU ignore the numbers and try to get some consistency! Let your coach worry about the numbers! It could be that you are too much numbers/range oriented - as opposed to actual course oriented!

A couple of years ago, TM was promoting the 17/1700 stats (17* launch and 1700 Spin) as being 'ideal' ! If you can get somewhere near that CONSISTENTLY, then you will likely improve much faster/simpler than trying to amend a 'stretched' swing! Perhaps even slow the swing down very slightly!

FWIW... more spin normally keep the ball in the air longer, so, say, 15* launch and 2200 spin ain't too bad! It's often a 'not really great' idea to compare Pro stats unless you can consistently match their consistency, swing speeds and quality of strikes! And if you can do that, then perhaps you should consider why you aren't on tour yourself!!

 

[duncan mackie]

The problem here is that ball speed, launch angle and spin rare are all interconnected and, in terms of optimum solutions if you adjust one you will have to adjust another.

And that's the easy bit - as already outlined above launch angle is a function of other elements; which in turn include some that impact on spin rates!

In simple terms, from all the online charts and resources, you want around 13 as a launch angle and 2100 as a spin rate for around 100 swing speed delivering good smash factors.

But again, as set out above, delivering the smash factor is a whole other ball game

 

[turkish]

Thanks all. Foxholer I know where you are coming from and you are perhaps right in saying that I am too numbers orientated but I do think I am course orientated too- I'm just very analytical. However I know when I'm playing if I'm hitting a destructive shot so then go back to the pro to find root cause then we go back to working on it- He is very much more of a develop a feel for doing the right thing then the numbers will back him up when done correctly.

However I don't think I can play golf with a 7 degree out to in path so I do feel it worthwhile working with the pro to try and get this down. I also think if I can get the feel of in to out more on a LM then I'll be closer to neutral when actually playing.

Don't have any recent driver videos to see where I am at but here is one from 23rd February. Only thing about this indoor place is can't see trajectory- looks like a pull fade though!!!

[video=youtube_share;Nc-14jgFSow]https://youtu.be/Nc-14jgFSow[/video]

 

[the_coach]

is the Pro a S&T method teacher ?

can you lift your lead foot off of the ground fairly easily at the top of the backswing ?
even from the dtl angle looks as if there could well be a definite spine tilt towards target taking place during the backswing with the shoulder angle atop the backswing being pretty flat meaning it's almost horizontal to the ground

hard to tell for sure from the dtl angle but the ball position looks as if it could be a tad too forwards (in this particular swing)

also the lead wrist is a bunch cupped goin back to the top & remains that ways into the downswing - something that would play into adding dynamic loft

even though speaking about the driver swing the hands arrive at ball a fraction ahead of the club head - if there is work goin on to actively drain the handle ahead of the club head then the face angle will remain open adding dynamic loft

so even though the hands beat the clubhead in a good driver swing it's by milli-secs only the club head has to catch up the hands & pass them in order for a good release to take place so the cg of the club head & a squarer face angle all 'line up' to give a solid strike at a center location which combine to give optimum dynamic loft at impact

decent image to have at strike with a driver is to imagine where the ball is there is a tall box with a flat side at 90º to target & imagine that at impact you are lining up the driver shaft completely to lie flat on the box - so in effect the handle & the club face are completely inline at impact - you need the club head to catch-up the hands/handle to square the face & importantly present good dynamic loft - so you get the most efficient strike at collision

 

[turkish]

Hi Coach, Thanks for the input but will need to get a face on video for complete view as a lot of what you say is the opposite of what's been said before.

No not a S&T teacher- in fact 2 pros have recently said I tilt away from lead side TOO much at address & backswing with driver. IE reverse K too much with all my weight on back foot.

I have been told sometimes I play it too far forward though, and wrist angles have always been a bit of an issue so I guess when I am driving right it is probably when my timing is spot on. However been told my hands are too far behind ball at impact so again will need to get a face on video for this to be properly evaluated.

 

[the_coach]

for sure a face-on view would afford more information re the 'spine' & ball position & strike

asking about the spine appearing to tilt towards the target was in reference to the very top position of the backswing only (not set-up or coming into impact) before the downswing starts just looking at that upper body position & the leg structure & lead foot angle - where the weight 'appears' it 'might be' - in just this one swing though - Face-on view would begin to clear up some of whether that is goin on or not

the driver being the longest club in the bag counterintuitively needs the angle between shaft & lead arm & trail arm changing(releasing) a tad earlier in the downswing than would happen in an iron swing - given an optimum swing sequence (lower body to upper body & arms) in order for the club shaft/head to line up through impact

 

[bobmac]

Having now seen the swing, I don't know what you are trying to fix, it looks fine to me.
There is a slight over swing going back but the path coming into impact looks good to me. The flight certainly wasn't a pull fade., looked dead straight.
One tip I would give you is straighten up your right foot, it's turned out too much which will help with your overswing

 

[turkish]

Hi bob, at that time I had been actually been hitting driver pretty well but not now so in the interest of showing worts and all here are 4 vids from today. Right away even I can see a bunch of bad things going on so would like input in major cause first. I would say the steep shaft on down swing my first major fault, then I seem to have reverted back to a bit of a stand up reverse pivot (something I worked hard previously on getting rid of and what coach alluded to) then the wrists a bit cupped at the top. Interestingly listening to a podcast today and saying jack played best with a cupped wrist as did hogan so maybe the least of my worries... though I do feel quite wristy so I do think I need to quieten them a bit.

Feedback appreciated.

https://youtu.be/NZuy1jouZOs

https://youtu.be/ubSyadrFsE4

https://youtu.be/hhFxakZTVdk

https://youtu.be/zOkLKfP8Zac

 

[the_coach]

the first difficulty starts with the grip hold of both lead & trail hands - how the handle is being held the orientation of the hands on the handle - & how & where the handle is 'running' in the hands is a limiting factor to what follows

this then has a bearing on the angle of the trail arm so the angle of the upper body that initial tad low trail shoulder & maybes the stance width then also just a tad wide

the grip hold as it is doesn't really allow the hands to work as functionally as they could either goin back to the top - so then is partly responsible for the overswing - & then doesn't really allow the hands/wrists to operate as functionally as they could through impact

given the grip hold is how it is - the swing you make is a real good motion

biggest bang for the buck improvement initially lies in changing the grip hold in both hands which then in turn will allow a better set-up of the arm structure upper body angles - plus allow the hands to work a bunch better thru impact

not so easy at first to change the grip hold but if approached the right ways it's absolutely possible to achieve without it taking over long - then that should allow some pretty major steps forwards

 

[Foxholer]

To me, your feet seem too far apart! Part of that might be caused by how open both feet are.

Overall swing seems to be quite a (controlled?) 'slash', so it's possible that your feet have moved, or been set, apart to assist stability! I can certainly understand the query about S&T too! Check out Luke Donald's driver setup/swing as a comparison. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=l...69i57j69i59.4931j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It's likely that clubhead speed will reduce initially and/or you may struggle to maintain stability (you could build up 'core' with exercises like push-ups or 'then plank'!).

Btw. Is that angle of the shoulders at address something you have been taught? Oh and there seems a bit too much movement of the head too, though at least in the 'better' plane.

There does seem to be a grip issue too (as seen in the finish of the face on vids). Bob and the_coach are the best to learn from in that area!

 

[turkish]

Thanks for the input. The weird thing is I have questioned my pro several times as I’m aware I have a strong grip but he says he is happy with it. He seems more concerned with the steep shaft I have in the downswing

 

[AMcC]

Two nosy questions
Who is coaching you and what is your handicap .
Dtl swing looks ok