What is the point of lessons if you cant replicate it on the course?

[Golfnut1957]

I suppose it depends what is on offer.
Off you go to the Pro for a quick fix, he takes a look, fixes your alignment, adjusts your grip and sends you of contented, until you fall back into your old bad habits. But what he doesn't do in a half hour lesson is mess with your swing.
On the other hand if you decide that you need a major overhaul then you better be in it for the long haul. You are going to have to visit the Pro regularly so that he can put you back on the path to golfing greatness, because as sure as eggs are eggs without anyone behind you watching and critiquing you will slowly move back from new to old, or worse, something in between.
Think of all the tour Pro's stood on the range with their coach behind them checking that everything is perfectly aligned and/or making minute adjustments.
I went for a lesson with E.T. coach once (£50 for 30 minutes, It was a gift) and listened while I waited to him debriefing a lesson he had just given a young teenage lad. The detail was mind boggling. They discussed swing plane, path to target, angle of attack and other aspects of the swing in minute detail and at the end he said "see you next week".
And of course the key to it all as has been stated already is time on the practice ground, without which the whole exercise truly is pointless.

 

[Foxholer]

If you pay a pro for advice and you ignore it, whose fault is it?
...

Certainly agree with this bit, but I figure OP is not (deliberately) ignoring the advice.
One of the keys to a good teacher is providing 'reminders' (occasionally called 'feelages') so that if pupil reverts to old ways, then he/she can 'self-correct'. And, more for experienced/'sensitive' pupils, is the similar reminder/'feelage' of when the adjustment has gone too far.
The other key is not just having the lesson, but immediately putting that lesson into practice, either with a further period on the range or/and immediately taking the adjusted swing onto the course.

 

[Backsticks]

If you pay a pro for advice and you ignore it, whose fault is it?
It's a bit like asking a guy for directions and he says ''go down to the traffic lights and turn left''
If you go to the traffic lights and turn right, whose fault is it?

This is the flaw in the teaching pro golf myth though. Pros just cannot teach golf. Many things can be taught, but coming from a base of the skill or technique being fully understood in the first place. The golf swing is not understood - no more by pros than the average hacker, so they have nothing to teach.

Or :

Its a bit like asking a pro for swing instructions and he says "turn and swing the club like McIlroy does"
If you dont swing it like Mcilroy as he told you, and you slice it 100 yards into tht rough, whose fault is it ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thanks for taking time to replies. I am in a series of lessons which work great...in the lesson. At the moment the changes are not working on the course or on the range. Guess i will persevere

Stick with it. Work hard on the drills and if you are still struggling don't be afraid to go back to your teaching pro for further advice and help between lessons. Most will be happy to provide additional feedback

 

[need_my_wedge]

Thanks for taking time to replies. I am in a series of lessons which work great...in the lesson. At the moment the changes are not working on the course or on the range. Guess i will persevere

I've been having regular instruction for a while as my swing was well round the Ubend. It takes time, a lot of practice, and a lot of reaffirming. I'm by no means fixed, but I am improving and can see the changes starting to take effect. Stick with it and work hard, it will come good.

 

[Tashyboy]

When teaching, and not just golf. The old fashioned “EDIP“ is tried and trusted and it works,
Explain
Demsonstrate
Imitate
Practice.
The first three are always done in the Lesson. Practice is done away from the lesson. If there is no practice. The lesson is a waste of money. ?

 

[Billysboots]

The simple answer to all of this is that, on the course and when under any sort of pressure, the brain and body will simply go back to what they know. Anything more than a minor tweak of grip or set up is likely to take a huge amount of practice on the range. It’s all about retraining muscle memory.

I battled an over swing for a long time. And I mean years. For a long time, even when I felt comfortable swinging shorter on the range, I simply couldn’t do it on the course. I stood on the first tee, my brain knowing full well I could swing within myself, but muscle memory just took over. I’ve got it sorted now, but the work started probably two years ago.

Any sort of swing rebuilding, particularly if the fault is engrained to the point of being normal, is likely to take a huge amount of time and effort before it becomes the new normal.

 

[Tashyboy]

The simple answer to all of this is that, on the course and when under any sort of pressure, the brain and body will simply go back to what they know. Anything more than a minor tweak of grip or set up is likely to take a huge amount of practice on the range. It’s all about retraining muscle memory.

I battled an over swing for a long time. And I mean years. For a long time, even when I felt comfortable swinging shorter on the range, I simply couldn’t do it on the course. I stood on the first tee, my brain knowing full well I could swing within myself, but muscle memory just took over. I’ve got it sorted now, but the work started probably two years ago.

Any sort of swing rebuilding, particularly if the fault is engrained to the point of being normal, is likely to take a huge amount of time and effort before it becomes the new normal.

Totally agree, one bit I do agree on and was corrected was “ muscle memory”. Bottom line muscles don’t have a memory. I understand that but I think it’s a terminology that practice practice practice means you remember in your head that your swing and muscles are doing what you have been taught.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The simple answer to all of this is that, on the course and when under any sort of pressure, the brain and body will simply go back to what they know. Anything more than a minor tweak of grip or set up is likely to take a huge amount of practice on the range. It’s all about retraining muscle memory.

I battled an over swing for a long time. And I mean years. For a long time, even when I felt comfortable swinging shorter on the range, I simply couldn’t do it on the course. I stood on the first tee, my brain knowing full well I could swing within myself, but muscle memory just took over. I’ve got it sorted now, but the work started probably two years ago.

Any sort of swing rebuilding, particularly if the fault is engrained to the point of being normal, is likely to take a huge amount of time and effort before it becomes the new normal.

I have always had a massive overswing and a couple of winters ago (and from a lesson with GM coach Paul Foston) really worked hard to shorten the swing. The bottom line was after ingraining it for nearly 40 years it was simply too difficult to do ad brain and body simply didn't communicate. I talked it over with the guy I had lessons with and he's happy to work with it and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a fault. I wish I could shorten it as I know it would lead to far more consistency but having tried it for nearly 4 months solidly at the range 2-3 times a week I couldn't do it and certainly not to take to the course regularly.

 

[Jensen]

I have always had a massive overswing and a couple of winters ago (and from a lesson with GM coach Paul Foston) really worked hard to shorten the swing. The bottom line was after ingraining it for nearly 40 years it was simply too difficult to do ad brain and body simply didn't communicate. I talked it over with the guy I had lessons with and he's happy to work with it and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a fault. I wish I could shorten it as I know it would lead to far more consistency but having tried it for nearly 4 months solidly at the range 2-3 times a week I couldn't do it and certainly not to take to the course regularly.

John Daley did OK with an overswing

 

[Backsticks]

That makes no sense

Maybe I didnt state it well. I mean that pros have no idea what really makes a swing good. They can swing well because they have a talent but have no more understanding why they swing well than the 28 handicapper does why he swings poorly. So they just teach aesthetics. Inconsequential style.

Hadnt seen Wolff before. Apart from him playing world class golf denying the fact, he is doing it all 'wrong' by what pros teach. So is Bryson. The two swings are so different, yet effectively equally outstandingly excellent among the worlds golfers, And pros and teachers still will talk tiny margins of overswing, laying off at the top, weak or strong grips, as the reason a swing is working or not. But its nonsense. They are snake oil salesmen, but of the dodgiest kind - they actually believe the hokum they are hawking.

 

[inc0gnito]

I have always had a massive overswing and a couple of winters ago (and from a lesson with GM coach Paul Foston) really worked hard to shorten the swing. The bottom line was after ingraining it for nearly 40 years it was simply too difficult to do ad brain and body simply didn't communicate. I talked it over with the guy I had lessons with and he's happy to work with it and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a fault. I wish I could shorten it as I know it would lead to far more consistency but having tried it for nearly 4 months solidly at the range 2-3 times a week I couldn't do it and certainly not to take to the course regularly.

I’ve struggled with similar and while someone will always point out Jack Nicklaus or John Daly, these guys are the exceptions and truth is it is hard for us amateurs to play that way.

One thing I heard is that the overswing is basically the arms taking over and getting ‘disconnected’ from the rest of the body. And you will never stop an overswing with a shorter swing because you won’t feel “loaded” at the end of your backswing. You’ll keep going to get more power and feel loaded in the shoulders and arms.

What’s starting to work for me is using the core chest and lats in the takeaway and backswing (think torso and everything below the shoulders moving), instead of using the hands, arms or shoulders to initiate and complete the backswing. Basically it’s body driven rather than shoulder and arm driven. The shoulders and arms will be moved by these muscles. With arms less dominant, they won’t overswing nearly as much if at all.

 

[bobmac]

Maybe I didnt state it well. I mean that pros have no idea what really makes a swing good.
They are snake oil salesmen, but of the dodgiest kind - they actually believe the hokum they are hawking.

All pros or just the ones you've met?

 

[chrisd]

Maybe I didnt state it well. I mean that pros have no idea what really makes a swing good. They can swing well because they have a talent but have no more understanding why they swing well than the 28 handicapper does why he swings poorly. So they just teach aesthetics. Inconsequential style.

Hadnt seen Wolff before. Apart from him playing world class golf denying the fact, he is doing it all 'wrong' by what pros teach. So is Bryson. The two swings are so different, yet effectively equally outstandingly excellent among the worlds golfers, And pros and teachers still will talk tiny margins of overswing, laying off at the top, weak or strong grips, as the reason a swing is working or not. But its nonsense. They are snake oil salesmen, but of the dodgiest kind - they actually believe the hokum they are hawking.

I've seen some club members who've swings like an octopus putting on a jumper in a telephone box and still manage to hit the ball well, but I've seen, and been, someone who only got to feel a mm out of sync and the next shot is a provisional. It is totally wrong to try and label all teaching pros as "snake oil salesmen" . No, they aren't going to turn a 50 year old, overweight beginner into Bryson or Dustin, but they certainly can turn him into a competent club golfer and without some help he's likely to not even get the basics of golf anywhere near right, so if the average beginner only learns a correct grip, stance, posture and aim, then learning that will stop some years of misery.