what is the ball telling me?

[power fade]

was at the range tonight and found that i can hit all my short irons straight, but the 7 iron had a wee fade and the fade became a slice by the time i got down to my 3 wood. The ball flight seemed to start straight and spin off to the right. This got progressively worse as i moved down the clubs.

I have been trying to make sense of the ball flight laws, but just find it really confusing. Can someone tell me if i should be working on the clubface or the swing path, or both?

I am trying to hit the ball more from the inside whilst closing the face at impact - not sure if this is working or not. Its one thing trying it and another actually doing it and as everything happens so quickly, how can i tell?

the only other thing i can remember is on occasion i have the old chicken wing on my left arm just after impact (right handed) so could i be coming from outside and opening clubface to try and square it relative to path?

I am sure someone else has had this issue and if they could offer some words of wisdom, it would be appreciated

 

[Region3]

The ball is telling you that your club face is pointing to the right of your swing path.

If the ball starts right and goes further right it might just be a club face issue.
If the ball starts straight and goes right it might just be a swing path issue.
If the ball starts left and goes to the right you're gonna need a bigger boat!

 

[SocketRocket]

Your shorter irons are straighter due to the loft on them. It's a little technical but the more loft the club has then the smaller the difference becomes between the clubface direction and swingpath. (I can explain more detail if you wish)

Sounds like your clubface is square at impact but your swingpath is cutting across out to in. You need to work on drills that get you hitting more from the inside. Bob's head cover drill is a good one.

 

[Region3]

The ball flight seemed to start straight and spin off to the right.

Sorry, didn't read it properly first time

 

[Oddsocks]

If you have the time and want all the technical knowledge, use the search function and search " new ball flight laws "

It can be very handy to understand especially if you want to learn to shape the ball

 

[golfdub]

was at the range tonight and found that i can hit all my short irons straight, but the 7 iron had a wee fade and the fade became a slice by the time i got down to my 3 wood. The ball flight seemed to start straight and spin off to the right. This got progressively worse as i moved down the clubs.

I have been trying to make sense of the ball flight laws, but just find it really confusing. Can someone tell me if i should be working on the clubface or the swing path, or both?

I am trying to hit the ball more from the inside whilst closing the face at impact - not sure if this is working or not. Its one thing trying it and another actually doing it and as everything happens so quickly, how can i tell?

the only other thing i can remember is on occasion i have the old chicken wing on my left arm just after impact (right handed) so could i be coming from outside and opening clubface to try and square it relative to path?

I am sure someone else has had this issue and if they could offer some words of wisdom, it would be appreciated

Try this, when at the top of your back swing drop your right elbow into your body and this will force the club to attack from the inside. I got taught that and it works a treat but does take time to groove in.

 

[Khamelion]

Try this, when at the top of your back swing drop your right elbow into your body and this will force the club to attack from the inside. I got taught that and it works a treat but does take time to groove in.

I have the same flaws as the OP describes and all the symptoms as described in a reply, though thankfully not all at the same time.

I'm having regular lessons and slowly but surely the ground in bad habits are going away. What I have to work on at the minute is what Golfdub mentions above, drop the right elbow into waist level on your down swing. My problem, one of many, was that my arms were, still are, coming away from my body and thus my club path is out to in slicing across the ball and thus giving me slices.

I'm being told that on the back swing, the left bicep brushes over the left side of the chest, then on the down swing, start with a hip push toward the target, right arm drops in close to your body, left arm stays close to your chest and hopefully you get an inside to outside swing path.

 

[bobmac]

drop the right elbow into waist level on your down swing.

I'm being told that on the back swing, the left bicep brushes over the left side of the chest, then on the down swing, start with a hip push toward the target, right arm drops in close to your body, left arm stays close to your chest and hopefully you get an inside to outside swing path.

I see this tip being given a lot and while it can work with some, I'm not a big fan of it as it can go pear shaped and make the out to in swing worse

 

[Khamelion]

I see this tip being given a lot and while it can work with some, I'm not a big fan of it as it can go pear shaped and make the out to in swing worse

How so? I'm working really hard on getting rid of my slice, but cannot see how dropping the elbow in would make out to in worse.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your shorter irons are straighter due to the loft on them. It's a little technical but the more loft the club has then the smaller the difference becomes between the clubface direction and swingpath. (I can explain more detail if you wish)

This is all to do with the ball's velocity vector as it leaves the plane of the clubface

An easy way to help you understand this is to get a pencil, a wedge, 7 iron and 3 iron

Hold the wedge as you would address the ball. Put the pencil against the face of the club with unsharpened end of pencil on the clubface and the pencil will point at an angle notionally the direction the ball will head off in when struck (btw this is the ball's velocity vector - the clubface is the plane).

OK now still holding the pencil against the clubface move the clubface open and then closed relative to the initial 'correct' address position - and note how little difference there is in where the pencil is pointing.

Now do the same with the 7 iron and 3-iron - and open and close the clubface the same amount as you did with the wedge. Notice the difference (with the three iron especially) that the open and closed clubhead positions make to where pencil is pointing. The 7 iron inbetween the wedge and the 3 iron.

So get your clubhead position slightly wrong with a wedge - not a lot of difference to the initial flight direction of the ball. However with the 3 iron, the same amount of 'error' in clubhead position at strike makes a much bigger difference to the initial flight direction of the ball.

That make any sense?

 

[power fade]

This is all to do with the ball's velocity vector as it leaves the plane of the clubface

An easy way to help you understand this is to get a pencil, a wedge, 7 iron and 3 iron

Hold the wedge as you would address the ball. Put the pencil against the face of the club with unsharpened end of pencil on the clubface and the pencil will point at an angle notionally the direction the ball will head off in when struck (btw this is the ball's velocity vector - the clubface is the plane).

OK now still holding the pencil against the clubface move the clubface open and then closed relative to the initial 'correct' address position - and note how little difference there is in where the pencil is pointing.

Now do the same with the 7 iron and 3-iron - and open and close the clubface the same amount as you did with the wedge. Notice the difference (with the three iron especially) that the open and closed clubhead positions make to where pencil is pointing. The 7 iron inbetween the wedge and the 3 iron.

So get your clubhead position slightly wrong with a wedge - not a lot of difference to the initial flight direction of the ball. However with the 3 iron, the same amount of 'error' in clubhead position at strike makes a much bigger difference to the initial flight direction of the ball.

That make any sense?

ok, so you are saying the clubface is key initially therefore if my ball starts straight this would suggest clubface square and the ball finishing right of target is due to swingpath - out to in.

Any good drills/swingthoughts to combat this?

 

[Khamelion]

With an out to in swing path there are 3 possible outcomes, others may suggest more, but these are the three that affect me:-

1. Club face comes in square along the path and direction of the club, you've moved you hips left and out of the way, the result is what looks like a straight push left, balls starts left and keeps going left in a straight line.
2. Club face comes in square but you fail to move your hips and you cut across the ball, ball starts straight and moves right during it's flight. A straight slice.
3. Club face is open, regardless of what you hips have done the ball will start right and keep going.

On point number three, if the club face is open, no matter if your swing path is in to out, straight or out to in, the ball will move right of the target line.

 

[power fade]

With an out to in swing path there are 3 possible outcomes, others may suggest more, but these are the three that affect me:-

1. Club face comes in square along the path and direction of the club, you've moved you hips left and out of the way, the result is what looks like a straight push left, balls starts left and keeps going left in a straight line.
2. Club face comes in square but you fail to move your hips and you cut across the ball, ball starts straight and moves right during it's flight. A straight slice.
3. Club face is open, regardless of what you hips have done the ball will start right and keep going.

On point number three, if the club face is open, no matter if your swing path is in to out, straight or out to in, the ball will move right of the target line.

Ok, so it looks like i'm nr 2 - straight slice - i know about the headcover drill, what else can i do to 'feel' the correct path drill or thoughtwise

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

ok, so you are saying the clubface is key initially therefore if my ball starts straight this would suggest clubface square and the ball finishing right of target is due to swingpath - out to in.

Any good drills/swingthoughts to combat this?

No - I'm only really trying to help illustrate one reason why longer irons are harder to hit straight than short irons. There are many reasons the clubface might end up not 'square' to the line you are hitting - swingpath will be one but will have additional consequences (fade, draw etc) that I don't really know about. That's why I stressed initial - your swingpath and other things will impart side, back, top spin etc that will influence the outcome. I guess this is why fades with our wedges tend to be less pronounced that those with, say, a 3 iron. But on the what to do about it - others here much, much better informed that I to help.

 

[bobmac]

How so? I'm working really hard on getting rid of my slice, but cannot see how dropping the elbow in would make out to in worse.

If your shoulders follow your hips and you pull the elbow down, you will be pulling the club down left of the target ie out to in.
If the shoulders dont follow your hips then you'll be ok.

 

[Khamelion]

If your shoulders follow your hips and you pull the elbow down, you will be pulling the club down left of the target ie out to in.
If the shoulders dont follow your hips then you'll be ok.

Ahhh I see says the blind man, makes perfect sense, fortunatley that's one bad trait I've managed to avoid, collected most of the others mind you.

 

[SocketRocket]

Just do the headcover drill.

 

[Khamelion]

OKay got to ask, What is the head cover drill?

 

[bobmac]

OKay got to ask, What is the head cover drill?

This is a drill used by many pros to help with the out to in swing (Sometimes called the 3 ball drill)

You place 2 headcovers on the ground on the line an out to in swing would travel on. One about a foot behind the ball and the other a foot in front of the ball as you can see on the video below.
If you hit the headcovers, you have swung out to in.

[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&feature=relmfu[/video]

 

[Imurg]

You spend most of your first session recovering your headcovers from the range but after a while it does work!