Water in Bunker

[scottkw2003]

Hi Guys

was playing in a comp last week when i played my shot into a bunker that was half full of water,
my ball landed in the water,
the guy who i was playing with said i could have free drop out of bunker onto grass.

i thought i was only allowed free drop out of water but still in the sand behind the water.

please can someone clarify for me .

thanks scott

 

[Imurg]

Free drop.
But only, as you say, IN the bunker
You can drop outside but it costs you a penalty

 

[rosecott]

Rule 25 applies:

b. Relief
Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an abnormal ground condition as follows:
(ii)In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:
(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

This may seem rude but it is not intended to be. Rule books are free and can be found lying about in golf clubhouses waiting to be picked up.

 

[Foxholer]

Rule books are free and can be found lying about in golf clubhouses waiting to be picked up.

Not seen one in the several clubs I frequent for some time (about a month after they were released).

I keep on in the bag though!

 

[North Mimms]

There will be times when depending on pin position, ball position and whereabouts the bunker collects water, that there is nowhere inside the bunker to drop the ball without being nearer the hole.
This tends to happen on my course occasionally because of the position of the bunkers relative to the green, and the way that they drain (or DON'T drain).

Am I right that in that case you have to drop outside the bunker under penalty? (or get soaked playing it as it lies!)

 

[duncan mackie]

There will be times when depending on pin position, ball position and whereabouts the bunker collects water, that there is nowhere inside the bunker to drop the ball without being nearer the hole.
This tends to happen on my course occasionally because of the position of the bunkers relative to the green, and the way that they drain (or DON'T drain).

Am I right that in that case you have to drop outside the bunker under penalty? (or get soaked playing it as it lies!)

not quite

look closely at the second part of (a) above that Rosecott has provided for you

basically you also have the option to take partial relief in this situation, which isn't normally an option when taking free relief.

 

[MashieNiblick]

There will be times when depending on pin position, ball position and whereabouts the bunker collects water, that there is nowhere inside the bunker to drop the ball without being nearer the hole.

Am I right that in that case you have to drop outside the bunker under penalty? (or get soaked playing it as it lies!)

Pretty much.

The only other option is to drop the ball at the spot which affords "maximum available relief", i.e. where the interference is least (e.g the water is shallower or where you may be standing in the water but the ball may not be). Normally of course, outside a bunker, if you take relief from CW you have to take full relief.

Otherwise as you say, you have to play the ball as it lies or drop outside under penalty in accordance with 25-1b(ii)(b).

Ah just seen that Duncan has beaten me to it. However as a bonus here is a Decision which adds a bit more clarification

25-1b/5 Explanation of “Maximum Available Relief ” from Casual Water in Bunker

"Q. In a bunker completely covered by casual water, is the place providing “maximum available relief” the spot which will provide the most relief for both lie and stance or just lie?

"A. The term applies to both lie and stance. The spot providing “maximum available relief” might be such that the ball will be in shallower water than the player's feet after he takes his stance, or vice versa."

 

[Matty]

We've had similar at my course all through the winter. We've had a local rule in place that any bunker containing water is considered GUR so a free drop out of the bunker. Always worth checking the local rules in play before you start as they saved me a few shots in our Winter League.

 

[rosecott]

We've had similar at my course all through the winter. We've had a local rule in place that any bunker containing water is considered GUR so a free drop out of the bunker. Always worth checking the local rules in play before you start as they saved me a few shots in our Winter League.

I'd be interested to know the exact wording of the local rule. (It will give me something to do, I'm fed up looking out the window at a sea of white)

 

[Fish]

We've been here before and I'm sure it was said to me, but hasn't really been qualified above, that under penalty it isn't a drop "just outside of the bunker", you have to go back to where you last played the ball before it went into the bunker.

Otherwise in deep bunkers whether there's water in or not, we'd at times take a shot on the chin and drop out!

[puts tin hat on as Duncan swings for me]

 

[Colin L]

We've had similar at my course all through the winter. We've had a local rule in place that any bunker containing water is considered GUR so a free drop out of the bunker. Always worth checking the local rules in play before you start as they saved me a few shots in our Winter League.

Like Rosecott, I'd be interested in the wording considering the clear statement of Decision 33-8/27:

Q.May a Committee make a Local Rule allowing a player to drop out of any bunker filled with casual water, without penalty, contrary to Rule 25-1b(ii)?

A.No. The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green, as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b.

 

[duncan mackie]

We've been here before and I'm sure it was said to me, but hasn't really been qualified above, that under penalty it isn't a drop "just outside of the bunker", you have to go back to where you last played the ball before it went into the bunker.

Otherwise in deep bunkers whether there's water in or not, we'd at times take a shot on the chin and drop out!

[puts tin hat on as Duncan swings for me]

no swing

you are confusing unplayable in a bunker (for which the only options are to drop in the bunker or, as you say, stroke and distance) with relief for abnormal ground conditions in a bunker - see (b) in the post above.

 

[North Mimms]

Ages ago when I first clarified with our pro about having to take a penalty drop outside the bunker if there was no possible free relief, I asked him about making them GUR.
He said only if they marked each and every one of them, then the white lines would still be there 3 days later when the bunker had dried out!

 

[Fish]

Ages ago when I first clarified with our pro about having to take a penalty drop outside the bunker if there was no possible free relief, I asked him about making them GUR.
He said only if they marked each and every one of them, then the white lines would still be there 3 days later when the bunker had dried out!

At Formby last week they had signs inside them that were GUR, which was almost all of them! Far better than white lines.

 

[duncan mackie]

Ages ago when I first clarified with our pro about having to take a penalty drop outside the bunker if there was no possible free relief, I asked him about making them GUR.
He said only if they marked each and every one of them, then the white lines would still be there 3 days later when the bunker had dried out!

GUR can be marked or designated, no such need for white lines at all.

the important thing in the rules context being raised here is that you can't designate all bunkers as GUR and still run Q competitions on the course. Not complicated.

any course where all bunkers are competely flooded shouldn't be used for Q comps anyway, so there's no real issue - and if there are a few bunkers, or even a lot, that because of the design of the bunker and amount of water wouldn't provide appropriate relief under rule 25 then they can be specifically designated (and, for example, 'both the greenside bunkers on the 10th hole' would be specific enough).