Unplayable Lie - Options

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Indeed, like me declaring myself King of the world!

Yes - except that's clearly not true as I Am.

 

[rulefan]

Not having a go at you Bunkermagnet but I must have this discussion with fellow golfers at least 3 or 4 times a year. And I'm not necessarily talking about players who are new to the game, there are an awful lot of golfers who have been playing the game for many, many years who believe that you can declare a ball lost.

The rule only changed in 1964.

 

[3565]

Getting back to the OP, it's a dopey rule, you can walk back hit your next shot which lands right next to the provisional you hit and still be lying the same?......

And they (governing bodies and a lot on this forum) are whining about slow play!!! Makes no sense to me!

 

[Spuddy]

It makes perfect sense to me. The location of your provisional will have an effect on how you would proceed if you decide that the original ball was unplayable. The only thing that should influence that decision is the location of your original ball

 

[3565]

It makes perfect sense to me. The location of your provisional will have an effect on how you would proceed if you decide that the original ball was unplayable. The only thing that should influence that decision is the location of your original ball

so your original ball is unplayable the ONLY option is to trudge the (forums 300yds) back to the tee to then hit another ball into virtually the same place as your provisional? And since the majority think golf takes too long then explain why it makes sense to you?

 

[backwoodsman]

so your original ball is unplayable the ONLY option is to trudge the (forums 300yds) back to the tee to then hit another ball into virtually the same place as your provisional? And since the majority think golf takes too long then explain why it makes sense to you?

Because it does - and he already said why. The position of the provisional would influence your choice of option about what to do with a ball in a crappy lie. "Shall play it? Shall I drop it over there in a marginally less crappy lie? Shall I walk back & play another and hope I don't lash it in the cabbage on the other side? Oh, look, there's a ball sitting pretty over there. What shall I do?" Nope, the provisional is only there to save time when you have no choice - ie the ball is lost or the ball is OOB.

And what if your provisional is not in a perfect lie? Should you get to choose either the original or the prov and then decide whether prov is also unplayable - effectively doubling your choices.

And moreover I suspect that once a ball is found, far fewer people take the option of walking back than of either playing it, or talking the other unplayable options. So not a time waster.

The rule does make sense.

 

[duncan mackie]

so your original ball is unplayable the ONLY option is to trudge the (forums 300yds) back to the tee to then hit another ball into virtually the same place as your provisional? And since the majority think golf takes too long then explain why it makes sense to you?

It's been explained many times.

Your 'option ball' would be hit on just about every tee by every player, would have to found (people don't leave them out there) and would slow up play imensly - could be the single greatest cause of slow play on the history of the game.

 

[Colin L]

Getting back to the OP, it's a dopey rule, you can walk back hit your next shot which lands right next to the provisional you hit and still be lying the same?......

It is a wonderful assumption seldom realised at my level of golfing ability that the next shot will land right next to the provisional. :swing:

 

[Fyldewhite]

so your original ball is unplayable the ONLY option is to trudge the (forums 300yds) back to the tee to then hit another ball into virtually the same place as your provisional? And since the majority think golf takes too long then explain why it makes sense to you?

Because hitting a second tee shot that MAY count when your original MAY be lost is much different in terms of what goes on in your head on the tee to hitting one that WILL count when you original IS lost or OB. This probably accounts for the perception that you always hit your provisional well....basically it's more often than not a pressure free shot. The rule is specifically to speed up play when a ball may be lost and not a backstop to give you options if it's in a nasty place.

Edit: It's not your only option if it's unplayable.......I'd guess that going back to the tee is quite rare for an unplayable lie (maybe <10% of these situations?)

 

[3565]

Let me clarify my point in a way I thought wouldn't need a long winded explanation. We've all been a part of a comp that has a starter. Certain questions and stipulations are said by him/her, can you identify your ball/14 clubs/have you registered/exchanged cards/local rules/claxon/speed of play and the obligatory if you think you may of lost your ball or its in the rough please play a provisional......

So with that in mind let me state that I worded the dopey rule wrongly, but the implementing of the rule is dopey considering the 'please play a provisional if.........' Now I'm taking for granted that WE all play the game with the honesty and integrity that it's meant to be played in, So I would hazard a good guess that the VAST majority of players who hit a ball in the cowabunga, the following scenario would occur.......

Player hits it deep into trees/bushes, plays a provisional and it's down the centre of fairway.

1. Look for my ball (even tho it's in the cowabunga) to determine if i can find it or its lost.
2. Found it!!!!!! (s***)
3. Can I play it, is there a way out? No.
4. Can I get 2 club relief? No.
5. Can I keep original point in between me and flag and go back as far as I like? No.
6. Last option, go back to where you last played your shot, stroke and distance.

You then walk back and proceed to whack it In virtually the same place as You did with the 1st provisional (as per instructed on 1st tee) to save time if the original is lost, 'but' the original ball was found so now because of a rule that has to be implemented (in a dopey way IMO).... We've now unduly delayed the game by wasting 5-10min walking there/back (unless your Micheal Johnson) to play another when your 1st provisional is there in the fairway or in play (rough/bunker whatever).

If you find your original ball and the first 2 options (2 club lengths/in line and far back) are not available to you, then why not then declare to play your provisional ball and save time walking back?

Now if like someone who has suggested on this post about it now becoming a differing mentality as the walking back increases the pressure on that player to get the ball in play, then that's different, as we all know provisional balls are the best golf shots we all hit, as we tend to then just stand there and hit it without thinking or were mad at what we've just done.

This rule is based around the word 'found'.
How many of us have hit it into the crap, played a provisional, gone to look and thought, I don't want to find that, as I might be heading back to the tee? C'mon leave it boys..........then played our provisional? Is that not the same as the 'provisional has influenced our choice to find the original' then?

This scenario is once in a blue moon, but with speed of play being an issue can a rule not HELP the speed of play if you 'find' your original ball?

 

[Spuddy]

I understand what your saying but I don't think the chance of a couple of minutes saved on the very rare occasion where stroke and distance is your only option outweighs the complete change in principle regarding provisional balls.

If you were to list all of the main culprits for slow play in order of their impact then I think you would find that people having to go back to the tee would be pretty close to the bottom.

edit: I've just looked at the R&A survey on slow play and this isn't even listed as one of the contributing factors

 

[rosecott]

Let me clarify my point in a way I thought wouldn't need a long winded explanation. We've all been a part of a comp that has a starter. Certain questions and stipulations are said by him/her, can you identify your ball/14 clubs/have you registered/exchanged cards/local rules/claxon/speed of play and the obligatory if you think you may of lost your ball or its in the rough please play a provisional......

So with that in mind let me state that I worded the dopey rule wrongly, but the implementing of the rule is dopey considering the 'please play a provisional if.........' Now I'm taking for granted that WE all play the game with the honesty and integrity that it's meant to be played in, So I would hazard a good guess that the VAST majority of players who hit a ball in the cowabunga, the following scenario would occur.......

Player hits it deep into trees/bushes, plays a provisional and it's down the centre of fairway.

1. Look for my ball (even tho it's in the cowabunga) to determine if i can find it or its lost.
2. Found it!!!!!! (s***)
3. Can I play it, is there a way out? No.
4. Can I get 2 club relief? No.
5. Can I keep original point in between me and flag and go back as far as I like? No.
6. Last option, go back to where you last played your shot, stroke and distance.

You then walk back and proceed to whack it In virtually the same place as You did with the 1st provisional (as per instructed on 1st tee) to save time if the original is lost, 'but' the original ball was found so now because of a rule that has to be implemented (in a dopey way IMO).... We've now unduly delayed the game by wasting 5-10min walking there/back (unless your Micheal Johnson) to play another when your 1st provisional is there in the fairway or in play (rough/bunker whatever).

If you find your original ball and the first 2 options (2 club lengths/in line and far back) are not available to you, then why not then declare to play your provisional ball and save time walking back?

Now if like someone who has suggested on this post about it now becoming a differing mentality as the walking back increases the pressure on that player to get the ball in play, then that's different, as we all know provisional balls are the best golf shots we all hit, as we tend to then just stand there and hit it without thinking or were mad at what we've just done.

This rule is based around the word 'found'.
How many of us have hit it into the crap, played a provisional, gone to look and thought, I don't want to find that, as I might be heading back to the tee? C'mon leave it boys..........then played our provisional? Is that not the same as the 'provisional has influenced our choice to find the original' then?

This scenario is once in a blue moon, but with speed of play being an issue can a rule not HELP the speed of play if you 'find' your original ball?

Surely your whole argument is based on the ridiculous assumption that your trudge back to the tee would produce another tee shot that flies up the middle just like your provisional. Golf doesn't work that way - it's just as likely to end up in the "cowabunga"

 

[3565]

I understand what your saying but I don't think the chance of a couple of minutes saved on the very rare occasion where stroke and distance is your only option outweighs the complete change in principle regarding provisional balls.

If you were to list all of the main culprits for slow play in order of their impact then I think you would find that people having to go back to the tee would be pretty close to the bottom.

edit: I've just looked at the R&A survey on slow play and this isn't even listed as one of the contributing factors

I agree that this scenario is far and few between and is no way a culprit towards slow play, I'm just answering the original post who had this or asked the question and thought how ridiculous the back to tee thing is in theory when you've hit a prov. just thinking in a common sense way......

And as far as the ridiculous assumption of hitting it up the middle of the fairway like my provisional, I'm more confident of hitting it to the opposite side of the cowabunga then the fairway, but some players ability 'might' hit it in the same area as the prov.............