Two Preferred lies

[pavany]

[FONT=&quot]The local rules of a golf club gives one preferred lie in the fairway of a par 4 hole and two preferred lies in the fairway of a par 5 hole. A player hits a tee shot on a par 5 hole, while preparing for his second shot on the fairway he takes the first preferred lie. Before addressing / playing, the ball rolls out of the lie. Without playing the ball as it lies, he proceeds with the second preferred lie [ allocated for a par 5 hole] and hits his second shot and completes the hole. As per the R&A/USGA rule 20-3d, if a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply. Any other rule as per definition includes the local rules also and as per local rules, player had the option of taking two preferred lies for a par 5 hole, which does not say whether you take the two preferred lies for a stroke or two strokes. Please clarify because it is debatable as the sentence says unless the provisons of any other Rule apply..[/FONT]

 

[Val]

Whay are you only allowed 1 or 2 preffered lies? Can this happen in local rules?

 

[Twire]

I'm not 100% sure what your getting at.......

When you prefer a lie the ball is then in play, you can't lift it again, but you can do it as many times as you like with a stroke in between (on closely mown areas).

 

[rosecott]

There is provision in the specimen local rule for preferred lies to apply only to a specified hole (or holes). There is nothing which allows the limiting the number of times such relief may be taken.

 

[Foxholer]

Sounds weird to me.

Preferred Lies (that I know of) are either available for any shot off closely mown areas - occasionally only on specified holes. This is because ground conditions are such that 'proper' lie that is normally expected on such areas is likely to be degraded - by divots, mud etc.

Seems to me either a misinterpretation, a daft Local Rule, or a penalty for moving the ball once Preferred Lie taken. No breach for it moving 'by itself' though.

 

[duncan mackie]

Please clarify because it is debatable as the sentence says unless the provisons of any other Rule apply..

In order to clarify it would be necessary to have the exact wording of the Local Rule.

However, as hinted at by others, IMO the LR is not going to be a conforming LR anyway, for more than one reason.

Please provide the detailed wording for more definitive comment

 

[pavany]

Thanks for the reply.Exact wording:1) on any par 4 one preferred lie and on any par 5 two preferred lies are permitted provided the entire ball lies within the fairway of the hole being played and not in a hazard.2) the ball may be lifted, cleaned and placed within one club length of where it originally lay, but not nearer the hole or on the green.3) after the ball has been so placed , it is in play.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks for the reply.Exact wording:1) on any par 4 one preferred lie and on any par 5 two preferred lies are permitted provided the entire ball lies within the fairway of the hole being played and not in a hazard.2) the ball may be lifted, cleaned and placed within one club length of where it originally lay, but not nearer the hole or on the green.3) after the ball has been so placed , it is in play.

OK

the primary problem with this wording is that the word 'fairway' doesn't have any definition, either here, or within the rules of golf. as such it's impossible to rule against.

even if this aspect was resolved I don't think the LR would be approved on the basis of restricting the number of preferred lies in this way because it goes against the spirit in which preferred lies exist and is unfair to the handicap golfer, for whom additional shots from closely mown areas might be the norm.

the committee should really consider the draft LR provided in the specimen LR area of the rules; it's worded that way for a reason.

if I was to give an opinion on the original question you asked, there would not appear to be anything in the wording of the LR to prohibit the actions indicated because the reference to the ball being in play after having been 'so placed' doesn't prohibit the taking of a further preferred lie; another flaw in it's wording (effectively you could get just under 2CL on a par 5). If the specimen LR was in place there would be - see it's wording.

 

[pavany]

Thank you for the reply.

So probably, on the basis of equity, since no extra advantage was taken, can we consider the score posted for the hole?

 

[duncan mackie]

Thank you for the reply.

So probably, on the basis of equity, since no extra advantage was taken, can we consider the score posted for the hole?

I don't think you need equity (1-4). The LR as written permits the actions taken. The reference in 20-3d is in the negative rather than positive and doesn't have any bearing to this situation as long as the ball was at rest after being placed, and it's subsequent movement wasn't attributable to any of the agencies listed in Rule 18

ie play as lies following movement, it's in play, ball in play on fairway of a par 5 permitted 2 preferred lies under LR, only one taken so far so a second can be taken. No rules breached - no penalties.

 

[pavany]

Thank you so much, LR may need to be changed.