TW - ever a "Great' ?

It may be the rose coloured specs, here, but I'm pretty sure that Jack was very well respected, but not particularly well liked in the early '70s.

He was the brash, aggressive, winner who was taking the crown of 'All time greatest' away from Arnie. Playing golf successfully, and winning majors was more important than being media savvy, and looking for public adoration.

It was only as he mellowed into the late 70s and 80s that he became truly loved. As his power faded, his popularity increased.

But he was always a Gentleman ( eg giving Jacklin that putt in the 69 Ryder Cup ).

Woods has never been a gentleman, and will never, in my opinion, be the equal to history's greatest golfer.

But my memories are those of an ageing minority. The history books and the stats will go the man with most majors. If Woods takes that crown, history will smile on him, and future generations will accept his greatness.

The fact that golf will be the worse for being just a little less sporting will soon be forgotten.
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You are right that Jack was a brash new player, but he mellowed more quickly than that. As early as the 1962 US Open, he saw TV pictures of himself smoking, and decided that was not what he wanted to people to see, and never smoked at an event again.

I think the difference was that Tiger has been quoted as saying that when playing someone he wants to rip their heart out. Nicklaus wanted to beat someone with more grace than that, and was generous in victory and defeat (usually).

He is also well known as a family man, and I have never heard any suggestion of Tiger-like slapper action on the side. I doubt that Tiger will stay married for 50 years. He probably hasn't gambled away millions in Vegas either.

The difference is class. Nicklaus had it, Tiger doesn't.
 
Defo a great!!

All the others mentioned by Chrismc are greats as well all for differing reasons.

Tiger will be remembered as a great mainly for his play on the golf course.

Im more in the dodger camp on this one!
 
I don't get where this view that Tiger isn't gracious in defeat comes from? He is always straight over at the end of the game, hat off and hand shake whilst looking the other guy in the eye.

What more is required? Gently cupping his opponent?? Hardly appropriate with the cameras on!! :o :D

Three instances spring to mind with Tiger and him being sporting (or just a gentleman): Darren Clarke after he lost his wife before, during and after that emotional RC at the K Club. Rocco Mediate, genuine admiration and respect following the epic fight Rocco put up. Anthony Kim, took a phone call from TW to congratulate him whilst he was being interviewed after his 1st PGA win.

Tiger Woods is a great.
 
All in all, a good debate, and varying opinions.

I still maintain I dont like the guy, and cant stand watching him and his petulant and arrogant manner on the course. Sure, I can marvel at his Golfing ability, but I think he changed drastically when his Father died, and who was obviously the person who kept him straight in many ways.

Alchemy : You're obviously, and understandably proud of your record, but that Sig's a bit LOUD isnt it ?

By the way......its 'Amateur'
 
Is Tiger Woods the best ever is a debate that will rumble on and on and may never be answered, but I don't see how you can have the question without accepting that he is a great.

I am a Tiger fan I love the way he has brought athleticism into golf and I think his early swing (pre 2001) is the most perfect swing I have seen. That said I never saw Jack in his prime I never say Player, Trevino, Mo Norman or the Hawk at there best either. Ballesteros was my hero growing up I remember bunking school to watch the final round of the 88 open worth all the trouble I got into, and to me Tiger has what Seve had the ability to see a shot and play it.

Is he a great golfer - Hell Yes

Is he a great Person - Who cares
 
He didnt even have the good grace to putt out and let YE Yang have the stage on the last at the PGA last year, and I thought it was therefore a fitting result for Yang to hole it and the crowd to go mad BEFORE Woods then have to hole out.

Seems a bigger cheer at the end here for Yang to Win than perhaps expected, I think there are as many who like to see TW get beaten as there are who support him blindly, completely overlooking his conduct inadequacies on the course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5jd1YKGGmE
 
Tiger Woods is already a great, what he does with his penis is entirely up to him. If he was your role model and you feel like you've been let down then that's too bad.

Remeber Nick Faldo and Brenna Cepelak? he was almost a pervert at the time... :D

Oops! That should be SIR Nick Faldo :D



I don't see how golf has been tarnished, is there a single decent golfer on the planet who DOESN'T want Tiger to return to the course?
 
Nicklaus, Watson, Seve, Norman, Palmer, Trevino, Player, have all been complete and utter 100% Gentlemen, gratious in defeat, and glorious in success, and wthout a hint of petulance or arrogance.
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Seve? No petulance or arrogance? You're having a laugh aren't you?

You're confusing the man with the golfer. TW as a man? I don't have an opinion, I've never spent any time with him. As a golfer, he is a great - if not the greatest.
 
Plenty of 'greats' were/are no angels. Maradona, George Best, Ronnie O'Sullivan, etc. Like Homer says... in 50 years time people are bound to recognise their sporting achievements I would have thought. Personally I hope he comes back soon simply because he's an inspiration for youngsters wanting to take up the game and I don't think you can put a price on that. By helping to grow the game like he has, I think he deserves the 'great' tag for that alone...
 
TW is a great, simple as that. He's won almost 100 times on the PGA tour and 14 majors - that alone puts him in the 'great' category.
Is he the greatest? No-one can possibly compare todays golf against yesteryears golf. The equipment has advanced so much in the last 10-15 years - I remember trying to hit a persimmon wood 250 yards with a top flite. Now, a driver and Pro V1 can see a good amateur smashing it over 350 yards. We have cavity backed clubs - only blades back in the day. Once again, I remember trying to hit a PW over 100 yards - the damn thing is uncontrollable now! So, TW the greatest - unable to say.
TW has enhanced the game fitness wise and, allegededly, inspired people to take up the game on a worldwise basis. Added to that his charitable work which is more than commendable and, in winning the Masters, became a living legend to the black people of America then he is starting to live up to the greatest tag.
His off course behaviour is precisely that - off course. We have no way of knowing whether Jack, etc ever strayed. They would lead us to believe that they never did but then so did Tiger up until November. No one is perfect, in fact, perfection doesn't exist. He's had affairs - no big deal. He's not a kiddie-fiddler! Elin is a grown up, she can make her own decisions. I do feel sorry for the children but then I feel sorry for the children of all celebrities - they're born into a cursed life!
With regards him being a good family man - he's away from the children more than he's with them due to his golfing commitments so he can't be a good family man. But, this is no new thing in sport. Top class cricketers are away from their families pretty much all year so they make appalling family men. Any sport where you go 'on tour' will require a VERY strong marriage and an incredible amount of understanding on both sides.
His behaviour on course does leave a little to be desired but it's nothing new. I've been watching golf since the mid 80s and at every tournament I'd see golfers losing the plot. I think the spitting thing is bad and should be looked at by the powers that be.


Sorry to go on but I've read loads about this on the forum and I've resisted the urge to respond so far.....
 
He didnt even have the good grace to putt out and let YE Yang have the stage on the last at the PGA last year, and I thought it was therefore a fitting result for Yang to hole it and the crowd to go mad BEFORE Woods then have to hole out.
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Chris your own personal opinion of TW clouds your judgment of the facts surrounding that event.

Tiger was on in 3 with a putt for par to stay at 6 under for the tournament. YE Yang, at 7 under, was on in 2 above the pin with a tricky putt especially for someone who had never been in that position before. If Yang had 3 jacked then TW would have had his putt to force a play off wouldn't he??

For Tiger to putt out of turn in this scenario would be rank bad ettiquette and, if holed, would have unfairly heaped more presuure on Yang. Which is a stick you would have hit Tiger with if it had happened and a play off ensued.

The run of photos that play on the title page of this site show a warm congratualtions between the two of them.

Fair enough that you choose to dislike him Chris, but take the blinkers off once in a while??
 
Very well said AuburnWarrior , you talk a lot of sense there.

I'm in the 'he is a great' camp. No reason I can think of for him not to be. He's already got 14 majors to his name and numerous WGC titles. How can he not be great ?

His off course behaviour leaves a sour taste in the mouth !! You cant take away a major for every slapper he's felt up , can you ?
 
I've never really been a Tiger fan in the same way as I was with Seve and Faldo as both excited me everytime they play. Woods is robotic in his approach and so its hard to be endeared to him.
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Faldo was exciting and Woods is robotic?! :D
 
I agree, he will certainly be looked at as one of the greats when the history books are written. As many have said history tends to gloss over the unappealing qualities of great sports stars. If he doesn't resurrect his career then he may be forever remembered as a flawed genius who should have been the best ever, but one of the all time greats nontheless. The 2000's will always be the Tiger decade.
 
He didnt even have the good grace to putt out and let YE Yang have the stage on the last at the PGA last year, and I thought it was therefore a fitting result for Yang to hole it and the crowd to go mad BEFORE Woods then have to hole out.
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Joke post

Yes he never holed out befor yang because if yanghad missed tiger was still in with a shot off winning.

Do you really think he would say he would hole out and give the guy more putts for the tournament if he missed.

Also of course the crowd went crazy when he won he corageously beat the greatest golf off all time.
 
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