TUPE and Inland Revenue

[Bunkermagnet]

Hello all
Is there anyone who’s in the know when in comes to TUPE and the Inland Revenue.
PM is preferred, but will discuss it here if needs be.
Cheers

 

[rulefan]

Have you visited ?

Business transfers, takeovers and TUPE

When a business changes owner, employees could be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE) - types of transfers, your rights, contracts, redundancy, where to get help

www.gov.uk

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Have you visited ?

Business transfers, takeovers and TUPE

When a business changes owner, employees could be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE) - types of transfers, your rights, contracts, redundancy, where to get help

www.gov.uk

Yes, I was looking for ideas on how to proceed for someone, where it's a little more complicated.

 

[rudebhoy]

TUPE is about retaining your terms and conditions of employment if you get transferred to a different employer, don't see what that's got to do specifically with HMRC other than it will be a different organisation deducting your tax and NI and sending it to them?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

TUPE is about retaining your terms and conditions of employment if you get transferred to a different employer, don't see what that's got to do specifically with HMRC other than it will be a different organisation deducting your tax and NI and sending it to them?

I know what it’s about.
Ok.
The query is someone is TUPE’d when they walk in one day to be told by the business owner I have sold the business, the new owner will carry on employing you.
The old owner gave pay slips, but there was no P45 when the business owner changed hands. The person concerned wasn’t made redundant, but carried on under their original contract.
The person then leaves about 6 months later, but the new owner only gives a P45 and P60 for their ownership term.
Now my understanding is the new owner should give those notices for the person whole time at the business, not just the new owners time as they weren’t made redundant or given a changed contract.
Am I correct, and if so what action must you take to correct this, since this has implications for the persons tax, NI and pension liabilities and contributions.

 

[rudebhoy]

I know what it’s about.
Ok.
The query is someone is TUPE’d when they walk in one day to be told by the business owner I have sold the business, the new owner will carry on employing you.
The old owner gave pay slips, but there was no P45 when the business owner changed hands. The person concerned wasn’t made redundant, but carried on under their original contract.
The person then leaves about 6 months later, but the new owner only gives a P45 and P60 for their ownership term.
Now my understanding is the new owner should give those notices for the person whole time at the business, not just the new owners time as they weren’t made redundant or given a changed contract.
Am I correct, and if so what action must you take to correct this, since this has implications for the persons tax, NI and pension liabilities and contributions.

Did they get a letter to say they had been TUPE'd?

If so, I would have thought the old employer was responsible for P60 up to the point when they transferred, and the new employer from the point they transferred to the end of the tax year.

CAB or his union (if a member) would be a good place to start.

 

[backwoodsman]

Although the ownership of the company changed, did the actual entity for who the affected employee work differ?.

ie if they had a contract with ABC Widgets before the ownership change and still had contract with ABC Widgets after, - with no new contract issued -- then they presumably have continual service with the one entity. And weren't TUPE'd. So new owner should give documentation for the whole period of service. But how its rectified I don't know.

 

[rulefan]

Instruction to businesses

www.gov.uk/guidance/payroll-what-to-do-if-your-business-merges-or-changes-ownership


Includes the following


A succession is when the ownership of a business changes from one legal entity to another and the new owner takes responsibility for the pay records. This includes when a business is transferred to a new legal entity as part of a sale by an insolvency practitioner in liquidations or administrations.

In both cases you will need to contact the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) Employer Helpline. They will confirm whether it’s a merger or succession.

HMRC will tell you which employer reference to use. They may supply you with a new one.

Changes to payroll where a new reference is required​

If HMRC’s Employer Helpline tell you to change or use a new reference you must first:

• transfer the payroll records to the new employer reference
• send in a Full Payment Submission (FPS) with leaving details under the old employer reference, including the year to date pay and tax figures

You do not need to prepare forms P45 for employees affected by the change. You will, however, need to provide details of their total pay and deductions up to the date the scheme changed.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Did they get a letter to say they had been TUPE'd?

If so, I would have thought the old employer was responsible for P60 up to the point when they transferred, and the new employer from the point they transferred to the end of the tax year.

CAB or his union (if a member) would be a good place to start.

No, they went it one morning to be told the then business owner had sold it to "new business owner". Nothing changed, apart from who owned the business.

 

[rudebhoy]

No, they went it one morning to be told the then business owner had sold it to "new business owner". Nothing changed, apart from who owned the business.

I think in that case, as per post #7 from backwoodsman, he hasn’t been TUPE’d.

 

[rulefan]

When TUPE applies:

• No, they went it one morning to be told the then business owner had sold it to "new business owner". Nothing changed, apart from who owned the business.

  When TUPE applies:
  • the employees’ jobs usually transfer over to the new company - exceptions could be if the employees are made redundant or in some cases where the business is insolvent
  • their employment terms and conditions transfer
  • continuity of employment is maintained

Print Business transfers, takeovers and TUPE: Overview - GOV.UK

When a business changes owner, employees could be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE) - types of transfers, your rights, contracts, redundancy, where to get help

www.gov.uk

 

[Bunkermagnet]

When TUPE applies:

• 
  When TUPE applies:
  • the employees’ jobs usually transfer over to the new company - exceptions could be if the employees are made redundant or in some cases where the business is insolvent
  • their employment terms and conditions transfer
  • continuity of employment is maintained

Print Business transfers, takeovers and TUPE: Overview - GOV.UK

When a business changes owner, employees could be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE) - types of transfers, your rights, contracts, redundancy, where to get help

www.gov.uk

Thats how I see it, and why I feel the new business owner has filled in the P45 and P60 wrongly.
Getting him to admit that is going to be fun......not.