To Name of Not

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Perhaps the real problem is that we don't punish effectively any more, and so there is most often the thought of getting away with a soft sentence if caught, and that perception is definitely the view by society in general.

Of course we could take a leaf out of the religious leaders of years back when dealing with "heretics" and put offenders on a bonfire.

I think we've moved on from that (they knew not what they did ) - however were we to have a referendum on the death penalty...

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Perhaps the real problem is that we don't punish effectively any more, and so there is most often the thought of getting away with a soft sentence if caught, and that perception is definitely the view by society in general.

Of course we could take a leaf out of the religious leaders of years back when dealing with "heretics" and put offenders on a bonfire.

Do you really honestly think that people actually think they can murder someone and get away with a soft sentence? I think you're being a bit disengenous, noone actually thinks that.

What do we actually achieve by locking someone up and throwing away the key? Is it deterring anyone? Are there people out there saying "I would murder them if i got 40 years in jail, but I won't for a full life sentence".

I'm not saying we let them serve 5 years and get out on remand, but I am saying we need more focus on rehab, and understanding the reasons behind it. It's alright saying "they have no mental issues that may have caused this", but surely that means they way they have been brought up, or their situation has driven in. Focusing on the rehab rather than punishment might lead to improvements down the line to prevent these things happening.

 

[User62651]

No easy fix, thankfully UK is 176th of 218 listed countries for murder rates at 0.9 per 100,000, for me that makes us a relatively safe country and gives some credibility to our justice system not being totally out of touch wrt sentencing etc imo.

Doesn't help these 2 victims of course but we need to keep things in perspective and not follow what the trashy media want to sell us.

 

[NWJocko]

Yet there have been plenty of examples where the family have forgiven the perpetrators of the horror that has been inflicted on them. And the truth I often see is that those who forgive seem to be able to reach some acceptance and peace of mind over it - whilst many who do not, seem to be perpetually tormented with anger and despair.

I'm genuinely interested into how many examples you "often see"?

We've covered this before on here, preaching forgiveness is all well and good until you are put in that position. I certainly am not "perpetually tormented with anger and despair" but nor will I ever forgive :thup:

On topic, I see no reason to name and shame these people, not sure what purpose it serves or what reason the wider public have for knowing.

I also get the point about focussing on rehabilitation of offenders, however what that requires (and I'm not so sure about as I'm no expert on the prison system or it's population) is that the offender(s) need to have the appetite for rehabilitation..........? Or do you segment prisoners into those who are remorseful/would like rehabilitation and those who don't?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm genuinely interested into how many examples you "often see"?

We've covered this before on here, preaching forgiveness is all well and good until you are put in that position. I certainly am not "perpetually tormented with anger and despair" but nor will I ever forgive :thup:

On topic, I see no reason to name and shame these people, not sure what purpose it serves or what reason the wider public have for knowing.

I also get the point about focussing on rehabilitation of offenders, however what that requires (and I'm not so sure about as I'm no expert on the prison system or it's population) is that the offender(s) need to have the appetite for rehabilitation..........? Or do you segment prisoners into those who are remorseful/would like rehabilitation and those who don't?

Fortunately murders of such nature do not happen that often - but when I think of forgiveness I think immediately of Gordon Wilson; but also of the mother of Jimmy Mizen; the wife of Alan Greaves. And some time ago the mother of Anthony Walker - and true - these are only a few examples and I suspect are in the minority. But the point I was making also was the anger and despair brought about by the absence of forgiving we do often hear from the bereaved families.

Their loved one cannot be brought back. The bereaved have to get on with life. Acceptance and forgiving are ways of making possible and slightly less painful such a difficult thing to do. Perhaps we cannot all forgive - but sentencing and naming should not be based upon whether the bereaved can forgive or not. And if some bereaved would wish to give the offenders a chance, then I feel that that should be the baseline for all.

 

[shewy]

I think that you should be informed if they move to your area when they get out, let's face it they will be out in 10,

 

[Bunkermagnet]

@Cheltenhamhacker

No one now serves the term they are handed down. What is so wrong with people actually serving it and thus knowing they will be inside with their liberty taken for that length term?
Rehab may work, but it can only work after the event..., by which time you have victims families left behind nursing their loss.
I don't believe someone suddenly becomes a physcopathic killer overnight, and I also don't believe they can be rehab'ed back to a balanced human being. We have to accept that some are born evil and will die the same way. It's how we deal with them inbetween that bothers me.

 

[SocketRocket]

The jail term should not be seen only as a period that will allow the murderers to repent and change but a period of punishment for the crime that will also serve as a lesson to anyone else considering murder.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The jail term should not be seen only as a period that will allow the murderers to repent and change but a period of punishment for the crime that will also serve as a lesson to anyone else considering murder.

In many ways I prefer to think of it more as the former. Because if they don't repent and change they'll not get out. I'm not sure that anyone whose thinking has become so squinty that the prospect of an indeterminate period in jail would be a deterrent.

 

[Foxholer]

There's a 3rd (at least) reason for incarceration!

That's to attempt to demonstrate to the general public that the authorities have control of law & order to such a degree that there is normal activity can be undertaken without additional measures!

It's pretty much universally believed that the length of sentence is no deterrent - at least in the case of killing!

 

[Hobbit]

What does a cross section of society expect from our judicial system?

A sentence that punishes, that deters and that protects. A small minority will hope for some form of restorative justice.

Would i want to see a 70 year old in prison, who'd been there 50 years? For me, some of the lesser characters in The Shawshank Redemption probably answer that question more eloquently.

 

[Golfmmad]

I'm not saying we let them serve 5 years and get out on remand, but I am saying we need more focus on rehab, and understanding the reasons behind it. It's alright saying "they have no mental issues that may have caused this", but surely that means they way they have been brought up, or their situation has driven in. Focusing on the rehab rather than punishment might lead to improvements down the line to prevent these things happening.

I would much rather focus on the future of the victims and how they can be helped to come to terms with the horrific murders of their loved ones. I also think that this case is unprecedented in terms of the truly awful way in which they planned everything in great detail and showed no remorse whatsoever.

I also think that in life we should all forgive more and move on and not dwell and fester on what has happened in the past.
But for me , in this case, there would be no forgiveness at all, ever.

To be named or not? To be honest, I couldn't give a damn!

 

[JCW]

We are too soft over here hence the problem , if its clear cut then put them away for life , no need to name them as who really cares ...............EYG

 

[Dellboy]

Name and shame then give them 99 yrs

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Name and shame then give them 99 yrs

shame who?