Titleist and American golf in dispute?

[pool888]

I think a fair few people are buying things they would not have purchased otherwise, from AG or from elsewhere. Take advantage of getting rid of some old clubs lying around and price match the best online price and you've likely got a cheap new club you would not of bothered buying otherwise. I would normally have looked out for a used club at a decent price but was as well buying a new one with the trade in offer. I'm surprised they haven't started their eBay shop selling the second hand stock yet, I don't know if they're waiting till later in the year with better weather to get better prices but they must be racking up a huge amount of used stock by now.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The pro at my club does an awful lot with junior coaching programs to get youngsters into the game. He stocks junior clubs and sells quite a bit of kit to them (well, the parents really). Every Saturday there are groups of youngsters on the putting green and the chipping green, many will become members as they grow into the game.

I'm very fortunate, we have a well stocked shop and a pro that does an awful lot to look after us. He will price match and always keen to 'do a deal'. I will always go to him before AG.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The pro at my club does an awful lot with junior coaching programs to get youngsters into the game. He stocks junior clubs and sells quite a bit of kit to them (well, the parents really). Every Saturday there are groups of youngsters on the putting green and the chipping green, many will become members as they grow into the game.

I'm very fortunate, we have a well stocked shop and a pro that does an awful lot to look after us. He will price match and always keen to 'do a deal'. I will always go to him before AG.

No more than you would expect from a Pro at a top Club, unfortunately, some of the Pro's are not in that position and is a struggle to survive, everybody wants everything cheaper and there is very little mark up for a Pro to begin with. Like every walk of life you get good, bad and average.

 

[GreggerKBR]

It's an interesting situation. Heaps of infrequent golfers (non-members) not changing their equipment because it's not worth it.
But if you manufacture kit, you want these people joining the market, you need them. Regardless of the avenue of purchase.

You can easily picture it, premium brands trying to protect their premium prices, bring out new kit and pay staff a decent wage for being part of the big brand.
They overpay the elite golfers to create the image that makes the masses want to play their equipment.

Add in constant drivel about "growing the game" and "loss of participation".
Add in Nike leaving the market because there's not sufficient margin and then the struggling retailers (pro's or conglomerates)

Then you have the Rep from the big brand trying to negotiate with the buyer from the big chain of shops and the smaller outlets.
The Rep wants a commitment from the buyer to take a large amount of stock, he's got commission to earn, and the big brand must have growth.
But the market isn't buying enough new equipment. So the big chain reacts.
And now the guys at the premium brand get nervy as their figures are wrong, the stuff will only shift at the right price...

Meanwhile, Mr average golfer sees that he can buy new kit at massive discounts.
Fundamentally there are two ways to influence buying behaviour so far as I understand it
(a) Manipulate it (discounts, priced to move, last stock, fear, pressure)
(b) Inspire it - it'll make you better, longer and look Rory plays it, it's just awesome isn't it.

...the big problem is this
once the market knows you will discount, they won't buy it (en masse this is) unless you discount it.
But if you keep pouring new, better, better than that, even better, much more betterer kit... the yesterdays kit will devalue.

Why are Titleist and AG having issues... have you looked around the internet at say Drivers or Putters just surveying the prices?
You'll notice that Titleist, Scotty, FJ all do not have a headline price against them on front screen?
You'll notice you have to click on the item to get the price?
You might feel like "why do I have to do that? I want to know if it's cheaper or same price as Taylormade or Callaway" etc.
Titleist are dictating strategy to retailers.
Retailers are reacting to market place.
We are the market place and we don't want to pay premium if we can get it cheap(er).

By the way, where are all these second hand clubs?
Can't see an influx of used kit anywhere - where is it all?

 

[MadAdey]

I don't think it has anything to do with protecting the club pro, they are a business that wants to make money.

I think the big problem is regarding steady cash flow. Everyone is rushing out to buy a set of 916 irons and a 917 driver. So great, the first quarter of the year looks fantastic, but no one is going to be buying for the rest of the year. In a years time everyone has already had an upgrade so not going to buy then either. It's difficult to run a business when your income is in peaks and troughs, far easier to manage and predict a steady income stream.

You might also find that the buyers from AG are trying to put pressure on the manufacturers to absorb some of the cost, to keep their profit margins looking good and Titleist have told them where they can stick it. With Titleist probably being the biggest seller across most of the golfing market, they probably feel that AG are trying to bully them and they are not going to take it. It would be interesting to know how much AG make from Titleist products. Scotty putters, Vokey wedges, Footjoy shoes and gloves, premium balls, they pretty much have the premium golf equipment market covered and it could hurt AG big time if they lost access to these products.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

By the way, where are all these second hand clubs?
Can't see an influx of used kit anywhere - where is it all?

Absolutely filling the shop floor in AG's stores.

Not a big problem as the stores I have recently visited seem to hold very little in the way of new kit. Perhaps it is not only Titleist from whom they are struggling to obtain stock, who knows?

 

[Coffey]

Absolutely filling the shop floor in AG's stores.

Not a big problem as the stores I have recently visited seem to hold very little in the way of new kit. Perhaps it is not only Titleist from whom they are struggling to obtain stock, who knows?

There isn't much second hand stuff in my two local stores. I'd say there is more than normal, but nowhere near the amount that was traded in. I believe it has been sent back to headoffice to be sorted and sold on ebay etc.

I bought a second hand driver on sunday and the guy said it was the same price as what they paid for it in the double trade in. So they made 0 profit off the second hand gear and only profited off the new gear they sold. Take into consideration that if they send all the stuff back to head office, sort it all and then put in the effort to sell, the profit from the new kit is pretty quickly eaten up by all of this.

In terms of new stock in store, I was thinking this as well. Hardly anything in there. I also thought this may be due to the arrival of the Epic and M1/M2 which will be taking center stage very soon and they currently only have demos in.

As well as the second hand stuff, my stores have loads of ex demo clubs which takes up a large proportion of the store.

 

[BristolMike]

I know the manager in my local store pretty well and he said it was all being sent off to head office to deal with. I think the stores are slightly bare just due to the time of year, the new models are all due out shortly so it's all being geared towards new releases. I think if you go back mid Feb things will all go back to normal

 

[chasf]

it just looks like price fixing to me, titleist is just trying to keep their prices high. Titleist don`t like shops discounting their products, buy doing the double trade in the customer can get a better deal on titleist clubs. This offer is great for the customer and hopefully it continues untill the new taylormade and callaway stuff is out so i can get some new kit.

 

[spongebob59]

hope this is not true I have just order some Ping wedges.g

Picked up my Ping wedges yesterday, no issues.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I know the manager in my local store pretty well and he said it was all being sent off to head office to deal with. I think the stores are slightly bare just due to the time of year, the new models are all due out shortly so it's all being geared towards new releases. I think if you go back mid Feb things will all go back to normal

Basic rule in retailing is to not have empty shelves or displays.

If they don't retain the secondhand tat in local stores then they will end up having bare looking stores and that will discourage many potential customers.

 

[shivas irons]

I just think the whole AG deal just looks like a stunt pulled knowing the administrators are round the corner with no conern for the long term effect on anyone. To me it looks like financial suicide.

This......

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I was in my local AG store around a week ago, Gosforth. They had very full displays of various shiny temptations. The bargain bag had the usual mixture and there were a few more sets of used, over priced iron sets which were well below their usual standard. Other than that, everything was normal.

I can understand, just, running this promotion for a month but to keep it going for so long when there is little financial sense in it strikes me, along with plenty of others on here obviously, as odd.

 

[Simbo]

Couldn't it just be American golf trying to get a bigger share of the market?
If they keep the double trade in running, everyone buys from them, no-one is buying from the club pro/smaller outlet. This puts the smaller business's in a very dangerous position.
But the 2 results American golf could be looking for are
1. The small business/pro shop lose that much income they have no option but to close or
2. When the smaller shop isn't doing enough business American golf move in with a peanuts offer to buy over their struggling business, let them run the shop and pay them a wage.

Both outcomes are that at the end of the day people buying golf equipment are buying it from American golf.

Basically bullying the wee guy, but a fairly common business practice.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Couldn't it just be American golf trying to get a bigger share of the market?
If they keep the double trade in running, everyone buys from them, no-one is buying from the club pro/smaller outlet. This puts the smaller business's in a very dangerous position.
But the 2 results American golf could be looking for are
1. The small business/pro shop lose that much income they have no option but to close or
2. When the smaller shop isn't doing enough business American golf move in with a peanuts offer to buy over their struggling business, let them run the shop and pay them a wage.

Both outcomes are that at the end of the day people buying golf equipment are buying it from American golf.

Basically bullying the wee guy, but a fairly common business practice.

So what about the pro's at members' clubs?

Don't see AG being welcomed in there and, in any event, attempts to "buy" market share have, in all fields, generally ended in expensive failure.

 

[Oddsocks]

To me it's simply a case of winning a bigger market share while capitalising on increase foot fall for impulse purchases, by offering this deal they have won people away from the club pros who simply do not touch used gear anymore.

Surely if people are suspecting possible financial issues down the line, their trading accounts for the last year will be available if you look in the right places

 

[Deleted member 18588]

To me it's simply a case of winning a bigger market share while capitalising on increase foot fall for impulse purchases, by offering this deal they have won people away from the club pros who simply do not touch used gear anymore.

Surely if people are suspecting possible financial issues down the line, their trading accounts for the last year will be available if you look in the right places

The last accounts I saw (admittedly a couple of years old) showed sales up but profits down.

The venture capital group that now own them changed both the CEO & CFO.

Because to us, as golfers, they appear pre-eminent in their field we, perhaps, should not assume all is well in the AG garden.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Accounts from 1yr ago can be very different to recent trading. Past accounts give a guide but no more. Not saying there are things wrong, unfounded rumour etc.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Accounts from 1yr ago can be very different to recent trading. Past accounts give a guide but no more. Not saying there are things wrong, unfounded rumour etc.

Thanks for that, I would never have known!

I have not suggested that there is anything wrong but I am suggesting that some on here are a little naive in assuming that because AG are the largest golf retailers they are automatically successful.

 

[Hobbit]

Account on stop?
Does all add up with this crazy double trade in deal which doesn't really make much sense re profit. It's the first rule of business, lie, lie and lie some more about how successful your company is trading.

My first thought on the AG deal was it's a company that is struggling and needed a cash flow. Pure guess work. And then Titliest won't sell them stock. Does that mean they've not paid their bill?

Titliest not happy about the AG double value deal? Why would the be that bothered about AG selling even more Titliest stock at whatever price when they'd be more interested in the buy in price?

Maybe Titliest are protecting club pros by not shifting stock via AG. Bit bizarre not wanting a retailer to sell lots of stock...