Think I have the wrong shaft: next steps?

[Monty_Brown]

I've finally accepted what has been staring me in the face for a while - that the shaft in my Cobra 19* hybrid is far too whippy and is producing a huge draw that is almost impossible to control.

To put it in context... I hit a second shot on a par 5 on Saturday. Shot was played from the left side of the fairway, set out right, tracing the right edge of the fairway for 100-120 yards, before drawing left, left, some more left, all the way back over the fairway into and through the trees on the left onto the adjacent fairway

I mean, I shape the ball with a gentle draw, but this seems to be in a world of its own... it must have moved more than 40 yards right to left in the air. None of my other shots do anything like this.

FYI, the current shaft is the standard issue Fujikura Motore Reg flex that comes with Cobra Baffler Rail-H hybrids. I am not a really fast swinger by any means, more of a rhythm player. Is this known as a particualrly whippy shaft?

So has anyone got any tips on picking a shaft, how to try out options if necessary and rough costs you should expect to pay for the shaft and getting it fitted? Club pro will be my starting point, but I'd like to go in there vaguely clued up about what's what.


I'd be grateful for any advice or suggestions.

 

[bobmac]

How far do you hit a 7 iron on a flat day?

 

[Monty_Brown]

155 yards Bob. My pro has always said I'm a bit fast for Reg flex and not fast enough for stiff!

 

[bobmac]

Im just wondering if it's in your head. You know it's your hooking club and when you try not too hook you hook more.

 

[Monty_Brown]

That is entirely possible! Any thoughts on how to break the cycle of getting lefter and lefter? Somehow need to learn to love it and commit to the shot.. I don't do this with other clubs so a separate swing thought for one club seems a tricky thing to do...

 

[bobmac]

It's a common fault amongst better golfers.
If it's the only club that hooks, then it's unlikely to be the swingpath or grip.
I would think the hook may be caused by the fear of hooking.
You feel if you turn through the shot you will hit it left. So to prevent that, your body stops turning.
What happens then is your arms and club swing passed you and your hands flip over, closing the face as the club swings around you.
Try and get to a range and hit a few shots with the naughty club and make sure you turn through it with gay abandon (can I still say that?)
If that doesnt work, come back and ask again.
Good luck with it

 

[Ethan]

155 yards Bob. My pro has always said I'm a bit fast for Reg flex and not fast enough for stiff!

Your pro should, and probably does, know that there is a huge range of shafts which vary enormously in terms of their flex and weight, and if you carry the ball 155 yards with a 7 iron, you would certainly fit into stiff in some brands of them. The driver swing speed range for stiff shafts starts as low as the high 80s mph, and for most brands is 90 or 95mph and up. I reckon you would need at least 95mph driver swing speed to carry a 7 iron 155 yards. If you have a smooth tempo, you can handle a softer shaft, but you may also do fine with a stiffer one, probably one of the more playable shafts suitable for a mid-tempo.

I think it is a bit lazy of the pro to blithely say 'you are a reg not a stiff' unless he has fitted you properly, or tested your swing speed on the Mizuno Shaft Optimiser or done something objective. There are many shaft options and you would be R in some and S in others, as well as the option to fit someone to a flex in between R and S.

The Motore shaft in the Cobra is a fairly soft shaft made for Cobra, and does not really compare with the aftermarket version. It is also pretty light for a hybrid shaft at 60g weight which may make it play a bit softer.

 

[Monty_Brown]

It's a common fault amongst better golfers.
If it's the only club that hooks, then it's unlikely to be the swingpath or grip.
I would think the hook may be caused by the fear of hooking.
You feel if you turn through the shot you will hit it left. So to prevent that, your body stops turning.
What happens then is your arms and club swing passed you and your hands flip over, closing the face as the club swings around you.
Try and get to a range and hit a few shots with the naughty club and make sure you turn through it with gay abandon (can I still say that?)
If that doesnt work, come back and ask again.
Good luck with it

I definitely do this on bad shots Bob... in fact, you have perfectly described my stock bad one. I have a couple of swings on video from recent practice sessions on the course where I get far too "arm-y" and the thing goes left. I will put on my pinkest polo shirt and practice the gay abandon thing

Really helpful thoughts, thanks Bob.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Your pro should, and probably does, know that there is a huge range of shafts which vary enormously in terms of their flex and weight, and if you carry the ball 155 yards with a 7 iron, you would certainly fit into stiff in some brands of them. The driver swing speed range for stiff shafts starts as low as the high 80s mph, and for most brands is 90 or 95mph and up. I reckon you would need at least 95mph driver swing speed to carry a 7 iron 155 yards. If you have a smooth tempo, you can handle a softer shaft, but you may also do fine with a stiffer one, probably one of the more playable shafts suitable for a mid-tempo.

I think it is a bit lazy of the pro to blithely say 'you are a reg not a stiff' unless he has fitted you properly, or tested your swing speed on the Mizuno Shaft Optimiser or done something objective. There are many shaft options and you would be R in some and S in others, as well as the option to fit someone to a flex in between R and S.

The Motore shaft in the Cobra is a fairly soft shaft made for Cobra, and does not really compare with the aftermarket version. It is also pretty light for a hybrid shaft at 60g weight which may make it play a bit softer.

Thanks Ethan for your advice. I think that I need to get some proper stats involved to be sure about my swing speed and therefore make educated decisions about the right equipment. The Fujikura definitely feels on the light side compared to other stock shafts, and my swing speed has crept up after a recent batch of lessons. I hit it well when I tested it and bought it.

In fairness to my pro, his comments about being borderline reg/firm have always been followed by "but we need to get you measured". So he wants to get me sorted but I haven't got round to getting on a monitor. Nonody to blame but myself I suppose.

I am going to get custom fit for a driver and 3-wood in the next month or two, so hopefully will have some proper data to revisit my hybrid issues.

In the meantime I'll use Bob's advice and learn to love it until.

Thanks all for the sage advice as ever.

 

[Alex1975]

I have been fitted a few times for a few different things and always come out on the soft side of stiff. I have found that the "made for" shafts have worked out well for me as they tend to be a little softer than the original.

I understand that you can also go for stiff but light shafts as I did with my irons but you can often end up with high ball flight with this combo.


Project X 5.5 is known as "firm" and you could put a steel one of them in a hybrid I guess.

 

[Jonny]

New here... but just as an opinion have you considered that there is more to shafts than just flex?

Example. Your iron shafts are probably steel with a torque of 1.5 or something like that... whereas the Motore stock shaft for this hybrid is rated at 5.0 for torque. That means that through impact the shaft will be twisting a lot more thus closing up the clubface and giving you a more left flight. I'd be shocked if this was starting right and hooking... I expect it to be either starting left and moving left or straight then hooking massively.

Go see a proper fitter. There is a place called Totally Golf in Harlow (probably not too far from you) which has the flightscope available. They'll sort you for a shaft pretty easily.

 

[Monty_Brown]

New here... but just as an opinion have you considered that there is more to shafts than just flex?

Example. Your iron shafts are probably steel with a torque of 1.5 or something like that... whereas the Motore stock shaft for this hybrid is rated at 5.0 for torque. That means that through impact the shaft will be twisting a lot more thus closing up the clubface and giving you a more left flight. I'd be shocked if this was starting right and hooking... I expect it to be either starting left and moving left or straight then hooking massively.

Go see a proper fitter. There is a place called Totally Golf in Harlow (probably not too far from you) which has the flightscope available. They'll sort you for a shaft pretty easily.

Thanks Johnny. Is Totally Golf where the Nevada Bob's used to be? The pics of the place on their website make it look pretty slick.... looks really nicely kitted out store. Can I take it you've used and liked them?

 

[Jonny]

That's exactly where they are.

And not used them yet. My coach recommended them as my clubs need extending. The shafts are way out in terms of length and probably flex as well. He's a guy I've known for years and is one of the very best coaches in Essex so I trust his opinion of them!

I have used Lee Porter at Hylands Park though. He's very good... but these guys are a little closer to home so less driving required.

 

[splashtryagain]

Alex - I was lead to believe that proj x 5.5 is stiff not firm due to the way the shaft plays tip stiff.

 

[gh585]

PX 5.5 rifles in my view play pretty stiff....

 

[Ethan]

PX 5.5 has a shaft frequency very slightly stiffer than TT DGS300.

Normal Rifles are frequency matched but PX are not. They are weight matched which broadly correlates with flex but much less than with frequency. Turns out that PX typically play stiffer than Rifles so PX 5.5 is closer to Rifle 6.0 than Rifle 5.5.

Also there are two flavours of PX in woods. The best quality and stiffest is the Tour Issue as fitted in the Titleist 910 series. These are solid shafts and play stiffer than "retail" PX like those fitted in Nike or Callaway woods such as my driver. The PX is in the 910 is a great shaft but a lot of players have found it too much to handle.

 

[Alex1975]

So that would mean that PX 5.0 are a little stiffer than DG R300?! and 4.5 a little under?


What ever, I am loving the PX 5.5!!

 

[Jonny]

The PX shaft does feel a little stiffer... mostly as the bend profile of the shaft is different in order to get the high launching flatter flight profile the shaft is designed to encourage. In terms of flex as a component of the frequency of the shaft they are identical to the standard Rifles. That said I hate the PX shaft. It feels harsh and gives no real ball flight for me. I prefer the standard Rifle. It feels so much smoother through the ball and doesn't need such a big aggressive dig at the ball at impact to get it moving properly.

But everyone likes a different shaft. That's why there are so many out there

 

[Monty_Brown]

Apologies for the self referential bounce for this thread, but thought I'd update the fact that Bob was exactly right in his diagnosis, and that I am an idiot who should work more on technique rather than blaming my equipment for swing faults.

Went to the range the other day and hit 50 odd balls with the 'crooked' hybrid. Swung with "gay abandon" as per Bob's advice and lo and behold, I can hit the thing just fine when I don't chicken out of the proper hip action

The shaft IS a bit whippy, but not as bad as I made out...

Thanks Bob.