The rules of golf are the rules of golf

[CarpeDiem]

I would align etiquette with guidelines - I can ignore, but I should be aware that it may not go down well.

Etiquette isn't a rule anyway, but a good analogy none the less.

 

[TonyN]

I would align etiquette with guidelines - I can ignore, but I should be aware that it may not go down well.

Etiquette isn't a rule anyway, but a good analogy none the less.

I guess just like leftie wedging on a green?

 

[Smiffy]

A have had no end of arguments with a mate of mine when playing various courses where local rules dictate "all roads and paths are integral parts of the course"..he simply refuses to play off of them because he doesn't want to damage his club. Despite me saying he can putt it if he doesn't want to use an iron, he says he will take a "free" drop.

I'm assuming these are just social rounds rather than Open comps when this is occuring? In which case what is the problem with having your own "local rule" that any roads or paths are free drops? It could just as easily be you having to play off the path, and I'm with your mate there, if I'm not playing an open (all 3 of my clubs would give relief) then I would drop off the road/path, penalty or no penalty, there's nothing at stake, so I'm damned sure not going to damage a club over it.

So I play like a God, knock it straight as a dye down every fairway, missing bunkers and roads etc. whilst he plays like an absolute drain, bashing it all around the gaff and lands on 5 or 6 paths and gets free relief every time?
Doesn't sound fair to me.

 

[hackamore]

Surely anyone agreeing to the waiving of certain rules is just as liable to penalty as the person actually taking the shot?

 

[KeefG]

A have had no end of arguments with a mate of mine when playing various courses where local rules dictate "all roads and paths are integral parts of the course"..he simply refuses to play off of them because he doesn't want to damage his club. Despite me saying he can putt it if he doesn't want to use an iron, he says he will take a "free" drop.

I'm assuming these are just social rounds rather than Open comps when this is occuring? In which case what is the problem with having your own "local rule" that any roads or paths are free drops? It could just as easily be you having to play off the path, and I'm with your mate there, if I'm not playing an open (all 3 of my clubs would give relief) then I would drop off the road/path, penalty or no penalty, there's nothing at stake, so I'm damned sure not going to damage a club over it.

So I play like a God, knock it straight as a dye down every fairway, missing bunkers and roads etc. whilst he plays like an absolute drain, bashing it all around the gaff and lands on 5 or 6 paths and gets free relief every time?
Doesn't sound fair to me.

I can see your point Smiffy, but its not your mates fault that the paths & roads are there is it? Its not as if he stands on the tee and says to himself "i'm gonna nail that road and take a free drop"

I'd do the same too tbh, there's no way i'd play off a road or path and would also take a free drop, unless there was a rule stating that no free drop is available and then i'd take a penalty. No one shot is worth damaging my gear. The pro's can afford to replace clubs left, right & centre....us mere mortals cant!

 

[viscount17]

I would align etiquette with guidelines - I can ignore, but I should be aware that it may not go down well.

In which case should some points of etiquette become rules, especially in competition; eg
replace divots/repair pitchmarks/rake bunkers - as all can materially alter the conditions for a following player

discuss

 

[Herbie]

Some people cannot see the wood for the trees.
Its cheating, simple. The people who have the greatest difficulty recognising cheating, are those who do it without a thought, closely followed by those who accept it.

Unless the players concerned make an agreement before or during the round, even in a friendly, this activity is cheating. All the talk and discussion in the world isnt going to change that. Someone has the misfortune of playing golf with a cheat.

Next time this cheat does this, point it out, wait for their response and when they are bleeting that it doesnt really matter in a friendly, you can reply by saying that it shouldnt matter if they take a penalty then?
See what response you get.

 

[Smiffy]

I can see your point Smiffy, but its not your mates fault that the paths & roads are there is it?

The 5th at Crowborough Beacon is a tough par 4, from an elevated tee you have to cross a deep gorge, and then the hole goes steeply uphill to an elevated green. There is a single track road that goes straight across the fairway which will catch out a long drive. It is an integral part of the course. On the tee you are faced with two choices. 3 wood to stay well short of the road, or Driver and hope to clear it. If you take the "risk" shot and end up on the road, why should you then expect free relief? It's on this hole that we nearly came to blows.

 

[Cernunnos]

A have had no end of arguments with a mate of mine when playing various courses where local rules dictate "all roads and paths are integral parts of the course"..he simply refuses to play off of them because he doesn't want to damage his club. Despite me saying he can putt it if he doesn't want to use an iron, he says he will take a "free" drop.

I'm assuming these are just social rounds rather than Open comps when this is occuring? In which case what is the problem with having your own "local rule" that any roads or paths are free drops? It could just as easily be you having to play off the path, and I'm with your mate there, if I'm not playing an open (all 3 of my clubs would give relief) then I would drop off the road/path, penalty or no penalty, there's nothing at stake, so I'm damned sure not going to damage a club over it.

In principle I'm with you. No-one wants to risk damaging their clubs yet for instance, we risk it every time we go into a bunker, this is why often as not there is usually a local rule that allows stones to be removed. Though this is not always the case.

If Smiffys mate doesn't want to play off a path he can declare unplayable & take a drop under penalty, or they can all agree at the begining of a round like you say Echltloon to have your own local rule. Just so long as it isn't a club comp. or something similar.

 

[muttleee]

I've seen people deliberately break rules...like the guy who moved a tee marker because it interfered with his stance after he'd teed the ball up. I pointed out that he couldn't do that and he told me to wind my neck in, or words to that effect. I honestly wonder how many people play this game to the letter of the law...I don't think it's very many, unfortunately. I remember another case where a guy took a drop from a group of staked trees, even though none of them was close enough to interfere with his swing. He argued that because there was a tree in his line, that was reason enough to take a drop because he didnt' want his ball to hit it. Despite the protests of his playing partners, he took the drop and played on. Fortunately it didn't matter because the rest of his game was pants. I remember another occasion when my boss hit a ball OB in a work society outing and played on after lifting it back in bounds. That was a tester for me as I was marking his card but fortunately (again) he was nowhere near the prizes so it didn't come to a head.

 

[KeefG]

I can see your point Smiffy, but its not your mates fault that the paths & roads are there is it?

The 5th at Crowborough Beacon is a tough par 4, from an elevated tee you have to cross a deep gorge, and then the hole goes steeply uphill to an elevated green. There is a single track road that goes straight across the fairway which will catch out a long drive. It is an integral part of the course. On the tee you are faced with two choices. 3 wood to stay well short of the road, or Driver and hope to clear it. If you take the "risk" shot and end up on the road, why should you then expect free relief? It's on this hole that we nearly came to blows.

When you put it like that then yes, he should declare his ball unplayable and take a drop under penalty. I thought the road was just there...if the course use it as a risk/reward type thing then yes, he is out of order for taking a free drop and you would be right to punch his face in if he does it again

 

[EchtLoon]

I've seen people deliberately break rules...like the guy who moved a tee marker because it interfered with his stance after he'd teed the ball up. I pointed out that he couldn't do that and he told me to wind my neck in, or words to that effect. I honestly wonder how many people play this game to the letter of the law...I don't think it's very many, unfortunately.

I am similarly concerned, which is why I hate playing competitions which are not drawn, but simply of the "put your name down with your mates" variety.

I'm not saying most rule breaking is deliberate, but a lot of players simply don't know when they are breaching some of them, and always playing with your mates who are similarly ignorant helps no-one.

 

[Smiffy]

He is out of order for taking a free drop and you would be right to punch his face in if he does it again

Is the correct answer.

I'm glad we got there in the end....

OK fair enough if you all agree on the tee to waive certain "local" rules, but not where somebody gains an advantage over the other players as in the instance mentioned above.

 

[Cernunnos]

I've seen people deliberately break rules...like the guy who moved a tee marker because it interfered with his stance after he'd teed the ball up. I pointed out that he couldn't do that and he told me to wind my neck in, or words to that effect. I honestly wonder how many people play this game to the letter of the law...I don't think it's very many, unfortunately.

I am similarly concerned, which is why I hate playing competitions which are not drawn, but simply of the "put your name down with your mates" variety.

I'm not saying most rule breaking is deliberate, but a lot of players simply don't know when they are breaching some of them, and always playing with your mates who are similarly ignorant helps no-one.

I'm with you on that one too. Due to my odd shift system I work, when I was a member of a previous club I would be in with a group of seniors as often as not. Generally it was usually all mates. The usual 3 or 4 ball & I'd always be the exta ball in the group. It was quite interesting the different things these different groups would do as far as the rules were concerned or anything else for that matter. Each group seemed to go out with their own version of the rules. I remember one group insisting I play from the tee again after going in the water rather than at point of entry in line with the hole. One group they'd always give themselves free relief from divots. Pathways were intregral parts of the course but most of them would still take free drops. In Stableford comps putts were given all over the shop, when I'm sure its just in matchplay that putts can be given. but put me right if I'm wrong.

Actually I always enjoyed those games from the entertainment perspective. At the time I had no real chance of winning much anyway & all I was entering comps was to maintain my handicap for the certificate to play places other than my home course anyhow.

 

[haplesshacker]

Very interesting thread, I've enjoyed reading it, though at times with equal amounts of despair and amuzement.

The question is. What can be done about it, and what needs to be done about it?

ps I'm probably not as white as I should be, a few grey areas, but I do ask the pro after the round to clarify how I should score the hole etc.

The rules always provide an interesting talking point at different points in the game. If we're unsure, we ask.