The hype around caddies

[Highfade]

Back in the day caddies were essentially lackies hired to lug the clubs around the country club course as it would be ungentlemanly for a member to do so.

Then in the professional golden era the likes of Hogan, Snead, Nelson would hire someone and give express instructions of ‘show up, keep up, shut up!’.
After all, what could a caddie tell Ben Hogan about golf that he didn’t already know?!

Nowadays somehow they are becoming increasingly integral and tied to the success of a golfer.
The media ensures we know the names of every caddie on tour when we rarely knew before.

Caddie hall of fame. A salver to the winning caddie at the open etc.
players waxing lyrical about how they couldn’t have done it without their caddie! It’s a team effort etc.

Is it a mental weakness to place so much of the responsibility on a caddie to reassure you as an elite golfer of what to do?
Even when some say he’s there for moral support or he cracks a joke to break the tension at the right time.
Does that screams of weakness too?
Golf is an individual sport which doesn’t include a paid escort around the course making sure they are ok.

Some players don’t buy into that and have their sons and even wives on the bag who have little to no golf expertise which seems to debunk the narrative that players are somehow missing out if they don’t have a top bagman.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not dismissing the need for a caddie. Someone fit enough to walk a few miles with a tour bag on their back could do it in theory.

Would Rory/scottie/tiger truly feel they would be significantly less successful if they had their unemployed likeable cousin on the bag? And how much do they truly listen to their caddies anyway?

Maybe get a bit of backlash for this but I’m not trying to poke the bear, I’m genuinely interested.
As someone that has never had/needed a caddie I don’t know what they bring other than what the players seem to be compelled and obligated to tell us.
Educate me please. Ta

 

[Neilds]

I find it quite worrying that you feel that asking for help or reassurance (in any form) is a sign of weakness. Men, in particular, should ask for help more and it shouldn't be seen as a sign of weakness.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It will all be down to the golfer and what he needs the caddie for

Some will carry the clubs only

Some will use the caddy as a sound board and look for advice or just a general chat etc

And some will ask their caddy to be fully involved in the process and look to engage the golfer

It all come down to what each golfer wants

Someone asking for advice or help is not a sign of weaknesses

 

[Highfade]

I find it quite worrying that you feel that asking for help or reassurance (in any form) is a sign of weakness. Men, in particular, should ask for help more and it shouldn't be seen as a sign of weakness.

I said “is it a weakness?” And it should have read “does that suggest weakness?”
Which I’ve edited.
Questions not statements.

 

[Burnsey]

Golf is an individual sport

Club fitter, swing coach, putting coach, wedge coach, nutritionist, personal trainer, physiotherapist, PA/agent/manager, plus more.

It is far from an individual coach, even before we introduce a caddie.

Another deep question from our returning member

 

[Swango1980]

Perhaps the role of a caddy started off as simply a role of carrying a set of golf clubs around for someone.

But, competitive sport people are always looking for marginal gains. Particularly at elite level. So, as the years have progressed, much more efficient ways have been found to use a caddie in a much better way. Not only does a professional golfer no longer really have to worry about getting organised for a round of golf and what they take with them, not only do they need to fatigue themselves by carrying their own clubs, but now they have a person who gets to know their game really really well, and have a second brain being used to help decide what shots to play.

No, it is not a mental weakness. All the stars of yesteryear would have a caddy doing the same thing, if they played today. If any of us were good enough to play elite golf, we would do the same. It could be a mental weakness (referred to as arrogance) if one didn't take the opportunity to benefit from those marginal gains, when they have the chance to do so.

 

[Neilds]

I said “is it a weakness?” And it should have read “does that suggest weakness?”
Which I’ve edited.
Questions not statements.

Even questioning it as a weakness means you think it is and should not be part of the thought process.

 

[Highfade]

Club fitter, swing coach, putting coach, wedge coach, nutritionist, personal trainer, physiotherapist, PA/agent/manager, plus more.

It is far from an individual coach, even before we introduce a caddie.

Another deep question from our returning member

So you’re of the belief that there is no such thing as an individual sport?
Fair enough. Entitled to your opinion.

Also. Bit obsessed by a member deciding to rejoin the conversation.
Get over it pal.

 

[Highfade]

Even questioning it as a weakness means you think it is and should not be part of the thought process.

Never heard of the concept of devils advocate I suppose?
Ok

 

[LincolnShep]

Is there a 'hype' around caddies?

If one golfer was the best in the world at reading greens, the best at staying calm, the best at course management, the best at judging the weather conditions, then he wouldn't need a caddie (a trolley would do). That golfer has never existed though. Professional golfers look at where they're lagging in comparison to their peers and do something about it. If they think their putting is a weakness, they get a putting coach. If they think their course management is a weakness, they get a caddie who is strong in that area. The lucky bit for the player is the caddie gets to be with them during the round but the putting coach does not.

 

[Highfade]

Perhaps the role of a caddy started off as simply a role of carrying a set of golf clubs around for someone.

But, competitive sport people are always looking for marginal gains. Particularly at elite level. So, as the years have progressed, much more efficient ways have been found to use a caddie in a much better way. Not only does a professional golfer no longer really have to worry about getting organised for a round of golf and what they take with them, not only do they need to fatigue themselves by carrying their own clubs, but now they have a person who gets to know their game really really well, and have a second brain being used to help decide what shots to play.

No, it is not a mental weakness. All the stars of yesteryear would have a caddy doing the same thing, if they played today. If any of us were good enough to play elite golf, we would do the same. It could be a mental weakness (referred to as arrogance) if one didn't take the opportunity to benefit from those marginal gains, when they have the chance to do so.

Ok fair enough.
I get all that.
Looking for marginal gains etc.
no stone unturned.

But for all the grand team around them it’s not being reflected in the scoring average charts which have remained fairly steady over the last 50 years.
Course lengthening is offset by modern technology.

 

[Golf is fun]

Is it a mental weakness to place so much of the responsibility on a caddie to reassure you as an elite golfer of what to do?
Even when some say he’s there for moral support or he cracks a joke to break the tension at the right time.
Does that screams of weakness too?
Golf is an individual sport which doesn’t include a paid escort around the course making sure they are ok.

To me this is like thinking it's weakness to hire an accountant to deal with your finances, a lawyer to deal with your legal matters etc... It just makes business sense where possible to delegate tasks to others who will do them well and probably better than you, so that you can focus on what you do best to deliver value. Ultimately professional golf is a business.

 

[Golf is fun]

Ok fair enough.
I get all that.
Looking for marginal gains etc.
no stone unturned.

But for all the grand team around them it’s not being reflected in the scoring average charts which have remained fairly steady over the last 50 years.
Course lengthening is offset by modern technology.

You can't just focus on one variable in this comparison, and assume 2 other variables cancel out, as it is not that simple. What about course condition, strength of field, length of career just to name a few?

As an example, even if being fitter doesn't change a players scores, but allows them to avoid injury playing more tournaments at their peak level and having a longer career on tour making money, it's a huge gain and a good investment.

 

[Highfade]

You can't just focus on one variable in this comparison, and assume 2 other variables cancel out, as it is not that simple. What about course condition, strength of field, length of career just to name a few?

As an example, even if being fitter doesn't change a players scores, but allows them to avoid injury playing more tournaments at their peak level and having a longer career on tour making money, it's a huge gain and a good investment.

All fair points.

But ultimately it all boils down to the score in the card.
Course conditions are arguably better than they have ever been.
Strength of field shouldn’t affect a players score elsewhere on the course.
The best players played hectic schedule in the past due to lower prize money rather than cherry pick nowadays.

I’m just asking questions and getting insight from other perspectives.

 

[wjemather]

Would Rory/scottie/tiger truly feel they would be significantly less successful if they had their unemployed likeable cousin on the bag?

It's often been said that this pretty much what McIlroy did after sacking JP Fitzgerald, and that he would have been much more successful (e.g. completing the Grand Slam years ago, and winning at least 10 majors by now) had he had a "proper" caddie rather than his mate on the bag (and was prepared to take their advice!).

Some also say that much of Scheffler's success is down to teaming up with Ted Scott, and he wouldn't have reached the heights he has without him.

When people like Player and Faldo, who rarely miss an opportunity to blow their own trumpet, give so much credit to their caddies (Alfred Dyer and Fanny Sunesson in particular), it says a lot about their value.

 

[srixon 1]

Slab will be along soon and hopefully he will tell us how he helped his player when he did his bit of caddying.

 

[Neilds]

All fair points.

But ultimately it all boils down to the score in the card.
Course conditions are arguably better than they have ever been.
Strength of field shouldn’t affect a players score elsewhere on the course.
The best players played hectic schedule in the past due to lower prize money rather than cherry pick nowadays.

I’m just asking questions and getting insight from other perspectives.

But not listening to the answers

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I’d have thought that a pro golfer new to a tour - and so the tour venues, courses and procedures, would find a caddy who knows the ropes in all these respects pretty useful to chances of success.

 

[Slab]

(Not posted as a caddy )

If we start with the principle that players on the elite tours do need a caddy (& they do) It follows that players will choose their caddy based on a range of requirements/qualities and according to their means

So we’ll see everything across a spectrum of ppl who could ‘carry the bag’ from friends/relatives to local resource, excellent AM golfers to specialists with years of experience who are full time employees of the player

The latter group are much more likely to be included as part of the team by the player and maybe have their contribution recognised.
After all what employer would hog 100% of the credit when he takes help from one or more ppl to achieve a given result/outcome? Particularly if they are potentially paying 100’s of thousands to that person

Bottom line, do we think the players manager/mngt company would silently support a player to commit to such a huge annual expense if there was no notable added benefit over a local course caddy?
And if a good caddy does add that much value, is it really that weird if a player acknowledges it from time to time

 

[Highfade]

But not listening to the answers

I am listening.
It’s called a conversation.
Someone starts it, then someone replies and then a counter point etc.
it doesn’t just stop. Jeez