The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[Deleted member 25575]

It is relevant. When you total up your score at the end of the round it's just a number. There are no prizes for the person that has the fewest putts or the longest drives.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

 

[Deleted member 25575]

I suspect that this has an element of truth in it but I think it mainly reflects in the comparative importance of dispersion of tee shots rather than differences between the comparative importance of putting and driving.

A lot of his data is taken from Arccos which is used the world over

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

No, I'm pointing out that your score at the end of the round is the total number of shots taken. There is no breakdown of number of drives, putts etc. Every time you hit the ball it counts as 1 shot, doesn't matter if it's a 280 yard drive or a 3 inch putt. If you hole 10 6ft putts a round compared to missing 10 6ft putts by 3 inches thats a 10 shot difference to your score. It's not difficult to understand.

 

[bobmac]

Smiffy is playing a 450yrd par 4.
He hits it 240 carry into the rough and finds an awful lie.
Hacks it out 100 yards forward, wedges on to 6 feet and misses the putt.

What caused the bogey?

 

[Orikoru]

Yes, clearly its driving.
12-14 putts will be inconsequential tap ins. 12-14 will be long putts of negligible chance of being holed or affecting the score. 6 or 8 putts actually matter, and are subject to random variation to a great degree outside the influence of the player.

Or put another way, if I putter for McIlroy he would still be a touring pro. We mightnt know his name though.
If McIlroy putted for me, I would still be a 9 handicap hacker playing for £10 on Sunday morning.

In addition - a bad drive can cost you 3 or 4 shots. A bad putt only ever costs you one.

 

[Newtonuti]

Smiffy is playing a 450yrd par 4.
He hits it 240 carry into the rough and finds an awful lie.
Hacks it out 100 yards forward, wedges on to 6 feet and misses the putt.

What caused the bogey?

Golf

 

[Backsticks]

No you wouldn't, you would probably be at least 3 or 4 shots lower minimum.

Yes, from my present 12.

 

[Backache]

A lot of his data is taken from Arccos which is used the world over

But what is the distribution of input if it is 90% non UK it wont reflect UK courses.

 

[Backsticks]

But what is the distribution of input if it is 90% non UK it wont reflect UK courses.

It will. 90% of UK courses are the same as the rest of the world, and those that arent, are 90% the same. So any differences are neglibile and do not change the overall conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 25575]

No, I'm pointing out that your score at the end of the round is the total number of shots taken. There is no breakdown of number of drives, putts etc. Every time you hit the ball it counts as 1 shot, doesn't matter if it's a 280 yard drive or a 3 inch putt. If you hole 10 6ft putts a round compared to missing 10 6ft putts by 3 inches thats a 10 shot difference to your score. It's not difficult to understand.

It most definitely isn’t difficult to understand, as I said in my first post in this exchange “while all shots count for the same”.
What you are finding difficult to understand, is that saying you have 30+ putts per round and only 12-14 drives per round, there are more gains to be made from putting.
The point I am making and you are missing, is some of those putts have no relevance in the above debate. Working hard on your putts will not give you a better make rate from 3inches.
Working hard on you putts may well give you a better make rate from 6ft, but you will still leave a lot of very short putts in every single round. So the statistic of 30+ putts is not correct.
It’s more 18 - 20 putts per round versus 12-14 drives per round. Which is a much closer mathematical equation I’m sure even you will agree

 

[Deleted member 31467]

It most definitely isn’t difficult to understand, as I said in my first post in this exchange “while all shots count for the same”.
What you are finding difficult to understand, is that saying you have 30+ putts per round and only 12-14 drives per round, there are more gains to be made from putting.
The point I am making and you are missing, is some of those putts have no relevance in the above debate. Working hard on your putts will not give you a better make rate from 3inches.
Working hard on you putts may well give you a better make rate from 6ft, but you will still leave a lot of very short putts in every single round. So the statistic of 30+ putts is not correct.
It’s more 18 - 20 putts per round versus 12-14 drives per round. Which is a much closer mathematical equation I’m sure even you will agree

Statistically a very good putter will make a lot more putts from around 6 to 20 feet than a very bad putter. Improve your putting and your scores will come down. It's not difficult to understand.

 

[Deleted member 25575]

Statistically a very good putter will make a lot more putts from around 6 to 20 feet than a very bad putter. Improve your putting and your scores will come down. It's not difficult to understand.

Elephants are big animals!
While what I say is as true as what you just said, it is equally irrelevant to what is being discussed.

 

[Backache]

It will. 90% of UK courses are the same as the rest of the world, and those that arent, are 90% the same. So any differences are neglibile and do not change the overall conclusion.

I haven't played enough courses to be sure, but of those that I have played this is not true and UK rough collectively has been more penal than elsewhere making it more likely to both lose balls and to punish wayward shots. It also appears to be the opinion of those who I have hosted from overseas.

 

[Backsticks]

Statistically a very good putter will make a lot more putts from around 6 to 20 feet than a very bad putter. Improve your putting and your scores will come down. It's not difficult to understand.

The figures are not that different in the range you quote.
The key difference between elite putters and hc putters is lag distance from long putts. Top golfers will only 3 putt about once ever two rounds. Mid hc golfers will 3 putt about 5 times every two rounds.
Putting will never bring more than a few shots score improvement for a mid hc on average.
Distance can deliver him 15 shots improvement scope.
It isnt about how many putts one hits - its about what scope for improvement lies in each shot. Most putts have no shots gained improvement scope, even for a poor putter.

 

[RichA]

Elephants are big animals!
While what I say is as true as what you just said, it is equally irrelevant to what is being discussed.

But one elephant is a single unit.
When counting animals, two mice, whilst tiny, are more statistically significant than a single elephant.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It is relevant. When you total up your score at the end of the round it's just a number. There are no prizes for the person that has the fewest putts or the longest drives.

Actually there are quite often long drive competitions.

 

[Deleted member 25575]

But one elephant is a single unit.
When counting animals, two mice, whilst tiny, are more statistically significant than a single elephant.

This true? But if those 2 mice had 1000 fleas each, then that makes both the mice and elephant pretty much obsolete

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Smiffy is playing a 450yrd par 4.
He hits it 240 carry into the rough and finds an awful lie.
Hacks it out 100 yards forward, wedges on to 6 feet and misses the putt.

What caused the bogey?

A poor drive put him in trouble, and he was playing catch up from there. But thanks to an excellent wedge shot he had a chance of par, which unfortunately he missed.

 

[Imurg]

This true? But if those 2 mice had 1000 fleas each, then that makes both the mice and elephant pretty much obsolete

But...the mice are running the World.......

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I wonder if those who think putting is the most important think that the key to a lower handicap is just making more birdies