The Bishop's View

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm not looking for a religious debate as such - I'm asking a question about the place of the churches in debating issues that can only have a largely political resolution - and why their views seem to be dismissed as out of touch or irrelevant, and often quite angrily. I hear quite a bit of 'the churches should keep out of this' Why?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes of course the unions have talked about immigration - for instance in respect of delivery of many public service, as well as the impact that immigration is thought to have on depressing wages.

I wouldn't know because It doesn't bother me what they say - and by the lack of reaction it doesn't bother a lot of people

And your point here is exactly what I was asking - why?

Are the 'most people' you refer to so closed to churches that they won't even listen to what they say about the difficult issues of today - issues to which easy answers do not readily present themselves and for which anything surely that might help politicians, government and each one of us to form a view would be welcome - not rejected without proper consideration and reflection upon. I am not sure there are any other parts or groups in society that provoke this reaction and am am interested in why that is the case, if as you suggest it is the case.

my point is exactly what I say - most people just don't really care what the church say and will no doubt have various reasons for that

You appear to want more of a reaction ? Are you looking for some sort of acceptance that the church have a voice ? Is it a case of "look at me" hence the annoyance of being ignored by the PM

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think the answer to that question is "yes". In the eyes of many, myself included, the church has been discredited so often that nothing it says can be taken at face value. That's even if you can ignore that the whole basis for its existence is a lie (but let's not go off on that particular tangent).

I don't disagree with this particular line from the church but I disagree with it so vehemently on other issues that I am unable to be anything other than deeply suspicious of its motives.

I understand why right minded people in the church might be disappointed by that but can you understand how the non-religious have been driven to that point? Do you ever read comment from the archbishop or other senior clergy and despair about the intolerance of the organisation?[/B]

I understand and accept your point - by their actions will they be judged (biblical quote by the way ) - but I must point out that you mention 'the organisation' as if the Christian churches were as one in their views and (perceived) intolerances. They are not - very much not.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm not looking for a religious debate as such - I'm asking a question about the place of the churches in debating issues that can only have a largely political resolution - and why their views seem to be dismissed as out of touch or irrelevant, and often quite angrily. I hear quite a bit of 'the churches should keep out of this' Why?

Because they are bigoted, intolerant and hold an unrepresentative level of power in influencing debate due to their brainwashing of people in general and politicians in particular.

You might disagree with me on this, and it is certainly very much a matter of opinion, but if you genuinely want to know why even sensible contributions to debate are treated with disdain from some, accept that this is part the reason.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I wouldn't know because It doesn't bother me what they say - and by the lack of reaction it doesn't bother a lot of people



my point is exactly what I say - most people just don't really care what the church say and will no doubt have various reasons for that

You appear to want more of a reaction ? Are you looking for some sort of acceptance that the church have a voice ? Is it a case of "look at me" hence the annoyance of being ignored by the PM

Your replies have made it clear that you are one of perhaps many who can't be arsed with what churches - any church - says about anything. Which is a pity as I think they do put a view from a perspective that is missing or ignored in much public debate.

BTW - I disagree with a lot of what some churches say and do, and with their intolerances. That does not stop me listening to their arguments and debate, I certaibly son;t dismiss it as irrelevant as it all helps me form/inform my own views on many difficult matters.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I understand and accept your point - by their actions will they be judged (biblical quote by the way ) - but I must point out that you mention 'the organisation' as if the Christian churches were as one in their views and (perceived) intolerances. They are not - very much not.

Indeed, and I accept that but my basic objection holds true. I'm no fan of religion, even those flavours that seem less harmful to society. I try to avoid picking on any particular religion for fear of accusations of sectarianism but I assume you are talking about Church of England which is not one of the "good" ones but neither one of the worst offenders.

 

[FairwayDodger]

BTW - I disagree with a lot of what some churches say and do, and with their intolerances. That does not stop me listening to their arguments and debate, I certaibly son;t dismiss it as irrelevant as it all helps me form/inform my own views on many difficult matters.

Which is to be respected. Perhaps you might be less well disposed towards them if you were the subject of their intolerance....

 

[andycap]

Any post on religion or politics will only ever go one way

 

[Tashyboy]

Any post on religion or politics will only ever go one way

"Tits up " maybe 😳