The Bishop's View

Liverpoolphil said:
But fully my opinion from what I have witnessed and read - you may not like it being a "man of the church" but it's possibly an opinion shared by a good proportion of people in the country

For the church to preach from the moral high ground then they must reach that high ground themselves - until then their words are as hollow as the values they preach
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Actually they don't, they can point to or express the values of the 'moral high ground' as you put it, whilst admitting their own fallibility. It is then up to the individual to decide whether they want to go there or not. If there is hypocrisy that comes when those who can make the difference claim to be acting on the principles of 'the moral high ground' when their actions are to the contrary.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Actually they don't, they can point to or express the values of the 'moral high ground' as you put it, whilst admitting their own fallibility. It is then up to the individual to decide whether they want to go there or not. If there is hypocrisy that comes when those who can make the difference claim to be acting on the principles of 'the moral high ground' when their actions are to the contrary.
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Your last paragraph sums up the church for me

And most will ignore the church

I'm not sure what you want to achieve in the post and I'm still unclear on your point anyway so will bow out now
 
This letter was sent weeks ago and got no response, yesterday they went public, surprised people were only hearing of it on this thread for the first time.
I spent 8hours driving yesterday and it was the main headline on the BBC Radio News (2 and 5) plus when I got home last night it was on both BBC and Sky News.
 
pauldj42 said:
This letter was sent weeks ago and got no response, yesterday they went public, surprised people were only hearing of it on this thread for the first time.
I spent 8hours driving yesterday and it was the main headline on the BBC Radio News (2 and 5) plus when I got home last night it was on both BBC and Sky News.
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Slow news day then! Nothing about it on the front page of the BBC news website (that I can see)
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Your last paragraph sums up the church for me

And most will ignore the church

I'm not sure what you want to achieve in the post and I'm still unclear on your point anyway so will bow out now
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I am simply asking why it is that churches (there are more than one and they are quite different) are attacked, ridiculed and told to 'shut up' and 'butt out' of matters political when they express a view on matters such as immigration (but I could add housing and poverty). Their view is simply one view of many - and simply a view based upon the teachings of their faith - and so a view which in general is one founded on compassion and love. I note that, to answer a previous post on this, I don't think anyone in the churches suggests that they have a monopoly on compassion - it's just the basis of their views.

But boy - do some folks get really wound up when the CoE speaks.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I am simply asking why it is that churches (there are more than one and they are quite different) are attacked, ridiculed and told to 'shut up' and 'butt out' of matters political when they express a view on matters such as immigration (but I could add housing and poverty). Their view is simply one view of many - and simply a view based upon the teachings of their faith - and so a view which in general is one founded on compassion and love. I note that, to answer a previous post on this, I don't think anyone in the churches suggests that they have a monopoly on compassion - it's just the basis of their views.

But boy - do some folks get really wound up when the CoE speaks.
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The same reason why people told Farage to shut up or tell Morgan to shut up etc etc etc

Because they think they are talking nonsense or that their point of view is not welcome or needed

As been said - it's a non story and it seems you are attempting to over play a small matter that the majority which appear to not give a monkeys about
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I am simply asking why it is that churches (there are more than one and they are quite different) are attacked, ridiculed and told to 'shut up' and 'butt out' of matters political when they express a view on matters such as immigration (but I could add housing and poverty). Their view is simply one view of many - and simply a view based upon the teachings of their faith - and so a view which in general is one founded on compassion and love. I note that, to answer a previous post on this, I don't think anyone in the churches suggests that they have a monopoly on compassion - it's just the basis of their views.

But boy - do some folks get really wound up when the CoE speaks.
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Christians like to believe in that highlighted bit but I'm afraid they only apply that attitude when it suits. The history and current attitude of religion is more based on bigotry and intolerance than compassion and love.

The reason this letter, and it's like, provoke such strong reactions is that the religious cults seek to influence government policy based on their superstitions. While the sentiment of this particular letter might find broader support in secular society, it is part of an increasing trend where the churches attempt to demonise people who don't conform to their narrow world view.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Christians like to believe in that highlighted bit but I'm afraid they only apply that attitude when it suits. The history and current attitude of religion is more based on bigotry and intolerance than compassion and love.

The reason this letter, and it's like, provoke such strong reactions is that the religious cults seek to influence government policy based on their superstitions. While the sentiment of this particular letter might find broader support in secular society, it is part of an increasing trend where the churches attempt to demonise people who don't conform to their narrow world view.
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:thup:

Summed up so much better than I could ever do
 
FairwayDodger said:
Christians like to believe in that highlighted bit but I'm afraid they only apply that attitude when it suits. The history and current attitude of religion is more based on bigotry and intolerance than compassion and love.

The reason this letter, and it's like, provoke such strong reactions is that the religious cults seek to influence government policy based on their superstitions. While the sentiment of this particular letter might find broader support in secular society, it is part of an increasing trend where the churches attempt to demonise people who don't conform to their narrow world view.
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I find it quite sad and a poor reflection on todays world that I actually think you are totally correct Karen.
 
I'm with Hogan on this one. Why can't the church speak up? It does have a place in our society, whether people want to accept that or not, albeit not a big one. And it also has a place in the politics of the country, from a wider perspective... if every man jack whatever can speak on any number of issues, why can't the church.

As for labelling all the church as evil... there's a lot they get wrong, and there's an awful lot been done wrong by the church but there are many fantastic people doing good for the church.

Not all politicians are angels, and that applies to any cross section of society.
 
I am totally anti - every religion, but I quite understand that the heads of various churches should want to offer guidance to the PM on these sort of matters. Surely that's what they are in high office to do?
 
I've no issue with them speaking out, but the op was asking why the backlash, and imo it's the cynism of todays society, they sent the letter a few weeks back and as they felt ignored tgey went to the press, does that say more about them or the pm.?
 
Hobbit said:
I'm with Hogan on this one. Why can't the church speak up? It does have a place in our society, whether people want to accept that or not, albeit not a big one. And it also has a place in the politics of the country, from a wider perspective... if every man jack whatever can speak on any number of issues, why can't the church.

As for labelling all the church as evil... there's a lot they get wrong, and there's an awful lot been done wrong by the church but there are many fantastic people doing good for the church.

Not all politicians are angels, and that applies to any cross section of society.
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Everyone can speak on the issues, much like the church can. But that also means everyone can tell them to shut up.

I do think that SILH is rather "overplaying" the criticism they got though, with emotive terms of "ridiculed" and "attacked".

For me personally, this is a non event. Increasingly irrelevant organisation thinking it has more influence than it does. Whilst there are many many people within the church organisation who do brilliant things, I don't like the overall organisation as a whole.
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Everyone can speak on the issues, much like the church can. But that also means everyone can tell them to shut up.

I do think that SILH is rather "overplaying" the criticism they got though, with emotive terms of "ridiculed" and "attacked".

For me personally, this is a non event. Increasingly irrelevant organisation thinking it has more influence than it does. Whilst there are many many people within the church organisation who do brilliant things, I don't like the overall organisation as a whole.
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BTW - which church organisation are you referring to - there are many and they can be very different.
 
Hobbit said:
I'm with Hogan on this one. Why can't the church speak up? It does have a place in our society, whether people want to accept that or not, albeit not a big one. And it also has a place in the politics of the country, from a wider perspective... if every man jack whatever can speak on any number of issues, why can't the church.

As for labelling all the church as evil... there's a lot they get wrong, and there's an awful lot been done wrong by the church but there are many fantastic people doing good for the church.

Not all politicians are angels, and that applies to any cross section of society.
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Yep the church can speak up on anything it wishes

No problems with that

It seems the issue Hogan has is the reaction from a very small number to them speaking out

I believe that Hogan is looking for a religious debate
 
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