The Bishop's View

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So why are the government, and so many commentators and callers to phone-in, exercised - some to a fuming anger - by what is essentially simply a statement of Christian principles in their letter to David Cameron on immigration. What is their beef with the Bishops - if - as I read and hear all the time - those having a Christian faith are, these days, a small minority - and according to some - a marginal bunch of weirdos.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What ?!

 

[Tashyboy]

Read about this earlier on the BBC site and reading the comments on the site, it's not gone down to well with people viewing there displeasure re Bishops and immigration.
Each to there own I Suppose.

 

[Blue in Munich]

So why are the government, and so many commentators and callers to phone-in, exercised - some to a fuming anger - by what is essentially simply a statement of Christian principles in their letter to David Cameron on immigration. What is their beef with the Bishops - if - as I read and hear all the time - those having a Christian faith are, these days, a small minority - and according to some - a marginal bunch of weirdos.

Maybe the objection is that people perceive that a small minority is trying to have undue influence on the issue? Or maybe people think that we are struggling to cope as it is without creating more stress on our creaking infrastructure?

 

[USER1999]

I see the Bishops don't mention how much the UK spends on aid to Syria and the like.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I see the Bishops don't mention how much the UK spends on aid to Syria and the like.

Maybe they would like to dip into their multi billions money pit to help foot the bill ?

Possible they should build flats and houses for immigrants to live in and then provide them with jobs to ensure they contribute to the country.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Lots of unused churches and church owned land around the UK.
With a housing crisis perhaps the bishops should look inwards.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I see the Bishops don't mention how much the UK spends on aid to Syria and the like.

Not my point - the Bishop's are simply stressing that it is important that public debate should be grounded in compassion; that self-interest is not the appropriate basis for making decisions as Christian faith teaches that all are equal in the eyes of God, and we should not fear the stranger, but love our neighbour.

So why all the indignation and anger when Christian leaders express these views in the context of the immigration debate, what would anyone expect them to say different? An yet their view draws anger and derision.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not my point - the Bishop's are simply stressing that it is important that public debate should be grounded in compassion; that self-interest is not the appropriate basis for making decisions as Christian faith teaches that all are equal in the eyes of God, and we should not fear the stranger, but love our neighbour.

So why all the indignation and anger when Christian leaders express these views in the context of the immigration debate, what would anyone expect them to say different? An yet their view draws anger and derision.

Prob because they find it all hypocritical for someone to critisize a decision made by government on the grounds of "compassion" when a good deal number of the issues in Syria are based on religious problems and the lack of compassion over there by certain religions

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Prob because they find it all hypocritical for someone to critisize a decision made by government on the grounds of "compassion" when a good deal number of the issues in Syria are based on religious problems and the lack of compassion over there by certain religions

That this may be the case is not in question - but neither the religious leaders signing this letter nor their denomination are the cause of the problems in Syria you mention - the Bishop's are simply stating what Christian faith teaches and gives guidance on how we should consider and debate such issues. Their is no hypocrisy in restating what Christian faith teaches - it also teaches that nobody - not even Bishop's are without fault and sin and do not make mistakes.

But even if you do not accept a single word of that - why get exercised and angry by their statement? From what I hear about the limited extent of Christian believe in the UK these days, I wouldn't have thought many folk would be listening and care what the Bishops say - so why would the government be bothered?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That this may be the case is not in question - but neither the religious leaders signing this letter nor their denomination are the cause of the problems in Syria you mention - the Bishop's are simply stating what Christian faith teaches and gives guidance on how we should consider and debate such issues. Their is no hypocrisy in restating what Christian faith teaches - it also teaches that nobody - not even Bishop's are without fault and sin and do not make mistakes.

But even if you do not accept a single word of that - why get exercised and angry by their statement? From what I hear about the limited extent of Christian believe in the UK these days, I wouldn't have thought many folk would be listening and care what the Bishops say - so why would the government be bothered?

Well reading the article it appears the government aren't bothered hence they haven't replied

Haven't heard about it on the radio or telly and first thing I knew about it was you mentioning it

It appears many folk don't care what the bishops are saying hence the limited response

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well reading the article it appears the government aren't bothered hence they haven't replied

Haven't heard about it on the radio or telly and first thing I knew about it was you mentioning it

It appears many folk don't care what the bishops are saying hence the limited response

Folks aren't going to express an opinion about something that they didn't know existed are they!

And now that the letter to Cameron has been made public the government have responded - usual rebuttals of course. Plus many of the public have expressed forthright, angry, disparaging and negative views (like your own) on what - as I said - is really only a statement of Christian beliefs by members of the CoE.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Folks aren't going to express an opinion about something that they didn't know existed are they!

And now that the letter to Cameron has been made public the government have responded - usual rebuttals of course. Plus many of the public have expressed forthright, angry, disparaging and negative views (like your own) on what - as I said - is really only a statement of Christian beliefs by members of the CoE.

I'm struggling to see what the problem is ?

"Many of the public" ?! Really ? A thousand of so responses on the BBC article and that's it

Do you want people to express an opinion ? A small number have but you don't appear to like that opinion

What is the crux of your issue - please spell it out

 

[Fyldewhite]

The letter from the Bishops is causing some consternation because they are interfering in the political agenda. It's not a statement of "Christian principles", it is a statement of "humanitarian values" that are shared by most right thinking people across the globe of whatever "faith" and I for one resent the constant hijacking of such values by religions of all flavours. The hierarchy of the church are increasingly an irrelevance in modern life and should keep well away from politics and especially issues of education. Thankfully, in most western European countries this is pretty much the case. Unfortunately, looking towards the east you see too many examples of the kind of ignorance, tribalism, bigotry and lack of respect for humanity in the name of religion that can proliferate.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Is there really a public outcry? I've only really seen it on here. You're not blowing this out of proportion are you?

People on the web get worked up about everything. Doesn't make it important.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm struggling to see what the problem is ?

"Many of the public" ?! Really ? A thousand of so responses on the BBC article and that's it

Do you want people to express an opinion ? A small number have but you don't appear to like that opinion

What is the crux of your issue - please spell it out

Of course I have no gripe with their expressing an opinion - though I might disagree with it. I am just wondering why many feel it necessary to attack churches and tell them to 'butt out' when they make statements on such as poverty, homelessness or immigration when these statements are made of the basis of the teachings that they try (albeit imperfectly) to follow.

Maybe it's because they highlight what should be in the broadest sense the 'right thing' to do - and the 'right thing' will often not align with self-interest, and today's society is awfully driven by self-interest.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Of course I have no gripe with their expressing an opinion - though I might disagree with it. I am just wondering why many feel it necessary to attack churches and tell them to 'butt out' when they make statements on such as poverty, homelessness or immigration when these statements are made of the basis of the teachings that they try (albeit imperfectly) to follow.

Maybe it's because they highlight what should be in the broadest sense the 'right thing' to do - and the 'right thing' will often not align with self-interest, and today's society is awfully driven by self-interest.

So you have an issue with a very small minority responding ( where as the majority just ignore it )

And as said above its a non issue that's being blown out of proportion

On the day the church sorts its own issues out then maybe it can suggest what the government should do

When the church do the right thing then they can preach about the right thing - whilst they remain corrupt in every way possible then their opinion holds zero weight

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So you have an issue with a very small minority responding ( where as the majority just ignore it )

And as said above its a non issue that's being blown out of proportion

On the day the church sorts its own issues out then maybe it can suggest what the government should do

When the church do the right thing then they can preach about the right thing - whilst they remain corrupt in every way possible then their opinion holds zero weight

Which is sweeping statement and gross insult

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...but actually where I guessed this might end up - rather proving my point.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which is sweeping statement and gross insult

But fully my opinion from what I have witnessed and read - you may not like it being a "man of the church" but it's possibly an opinion shared by a good proportion of people in the country

For the church to preach from the moral high ground then they must reach that high ground themselves - until then their words are as hollow as the values they preach