Thatcher, history will show...

[chrisd]

Maybe not uniting all, but I think all will agree that Thatcher is the most divisive PM we have had, with no-one running her close.

If many of the southerners had lived in most northern towns in the 80's, and seen what devastation she caused,they would have a different view.

I agree the unions needed sorting out, but to take away their power base by losing the country millions of manufacturing jobs that had been built up since the industrial revolution, takes a special "talent".

As was pointed out in an earlier post, many of the companies were going bust before she came to power. The unions were wrecking the economy, secondary picketing was legal and the U.K. had become a laughing stock. I agree that we in the south didn't bear the brunt of the hardships but the country would have gone down the tubes with the way it was going, strikes,walk outs etc etc. manufacturing was being lost long before her election.

She did vindictively close the mines, that happened even here in East Kent where I live, that was wrong. She did sell council houses but the country couldn't afford the maintenance costs of the housing stock and the sale raised money to build more. Similar was the case with the privatised industries, they had been starved of investment over successive governments and privatisation gave the new owners the responsibility to do what the governments had not - it also bought in to the coffers a huge cash cow.

its easy for those not there to criticise things she did in isolation but for me, overall, she did the right thing at the time

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hard for me to be constructive having been brought up in London and the conservative suburbs and not being directly affected by her policies and the implementation of the changes. It was something that for me at least going through my teenage years that it was something going on a long way away from my own world. Of course, what those being directly affected went through is impossible (and crass of me to even begin to judge). I think she some things right and I seemed to benefit directly (probably a fluke of location and upbringing) so of course my view will be clouded. I've seen the documentaries on the miners strikes, newspapers, docks, etc and clearly Thatcherism doesn't come out of it well

 

[Liverbirdie]

As was pointed out in an earlier post, many of the companies were going bust before she came to power. The unions were wrecking the economy, secondary picketing was legal and the U.K. had become a laughing stock. I agree that we in the south didn't bear the brunt of the hardships but the country would have gone down the tubes with the way it was going, strikes,walk outs etc etc. manufacturing was being lost long before her election.

She did vindictively close the mines, that happened even here in East Kent where I live, that was wrong. She did sell council houses but the country couldn't afford the maintenance costs of the housing stock and the sale raised money to build more. Similar was the case with the privatised industries, they had been starved of investment over successive governments and privatisation gave the new owners the responsibility to do what the governments had not - it also bought in to the coffers a huge cash cow.

its easy for those not there to criticise things she did in isolation but for me, overall, she did the right thing at the time

I think the council house sell off was a good thing (overall), so I am not totally blinded to Thatcher's few good things.

It made a lot of people more sociably mobile and finally made people be in a position to leave something for the next generation. However, it also made people more selfish, but overall I think a good thing.

It still doesnt excuse the excesses in most other things she did though, which laid waste to large parts of the northern and Scottish cities, and there was no redistribution of wealth. More could and should have been done, and even now with the "northern powerhouse", it is still something that should have been done 30 odd years ago.

 

[MegaSteve]

How do you identify a failing business?

When the incompetent management start blaming their woes/shortcomings on the unions and the lazy British worker...

 

[JohnnyDee]

When I was a lad there was The Gas Board and The Electricity Board.

Now there are a lot of foreign-owned 'energy companies' bamboozling everyone with a plethora of purchasing plans designed to stuff the consumer as hard as is possible.

Would it be too much to ask that we have one single unit of Gas costing X and one unit of Electricity costing Y. Then we wouldn't need the mathematical skills of an astrophysicist to enable us to calculate what exactly we're paying for our energy and what kind of value for money it represents.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Thatcher's visionary Tories who saw fit to flog both of these National utilities off to their investor mates, and whose descendants now have the audacity to tut and sigh disingenuously about what a terrible minefield today's deregulated money-grasping energy market is for the public.

 

[chrisd]

When I was a lad there was The Gas Board and The Electricity Board.

Now there are a lot of foreign-owned 'energy companies' bamboozling everyone with a plethora of purchasing plans designed to stuff the consumer as hard as is possible.

Would it be too much to ask that we have one single unit of Gas costing X and one unit of Electricity costing Y. Then we wouldn't need the mathematical skills of an astrophysicist to enable us to calculate what exactly we're paying for our energy and what kind of value for money it represents.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Thatcher's visionary Tories who saw fit to flog both of these National utilities off to their investor mates, and whose descendants now have the audacity to tut and sigh disingenuously about what a terrible minefield today's deregulated money-grasping energy market is for the public.

I don't disagree Johnny, there were certainly sone sell offs that were wrong in my eyes. I think the main utilities should be state controlled

 

[Tashyboy]

How do you identify a failing business?

When the incompetent management start blaming their woes/shortcomings on the unions and the lazy British worker...

Mega steve, Homer, Johnny Dee, excellent posts and some kind of emphasise what I was trying to say that a generation later, people are still and will continue to feel the negative impact of her legacy.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

First bill going through the new English Parliament, another historical moment.
Pity they forgot to include Wales in the legal process and got the name of the SNP wrong [again]

 

[Ross61]

She did sell council houses but the country couldn't afford the maintenance costs of the housing stock and the sale raised money to build more.

Unfortunately the money raised wasn't used to build more. That is the problem.

I personally also think the idea of getting council tenants to become house owners/mortgage payers also suited Maggie in that anyone with a mortgage was less likely to go out on strike.

The poll tax fiasco also helped the tories as many people (mainly left thinking) removed themselves from the electoral roll to avoid the tax.

I just love a conspiracy theory

 

[Tashyboy]

Unfortunately the money raised wasn't used to build more. That is the problem.

I personally also think the idea of getting council tenants to become house owners/mortgage payers also suited Maggie in that anyone with a mortgage was less likely to go out on strike.

The poll tax fiasco also helped the tories as many people (mainly left thinking) removed themselves from the electoral roll to avoid the tax.

I just love a conspiracy theory

What has not been said about the great council house sell off was this.
Said house worth £50,000 was sold for £25,000 if you qualified to buy it.
But £25,00 did not go to the local council for said house that they owned. £12,500 went to local council and £12,500 went to maggies government. in effect councils were told they had to sell houses so they could receive 25% of its real value.

Yet people tell me that was a good deal. Next time you put your house up for sale, let me know and I will expect a thick ear when I offer you 25% of its value.

That aside would you blame a house holder for buying said house, he would be stupid not to.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What has not been said about the great council house sell off was this.
Said house worth £50,000 was sold for £25,000 if you qualified to buy it.
But £25,00 did not go to the local council for said house that they owned. £12,500 went to local council and £12,500 went to maggies government. in effect councils were told they had to sell houses so they could receive 25% of its real value.

Yet people tell me that was a good deal. Next time you put your house up for sale, let me know and I will expect a thick ear when I offer you 25% of its value.

That aside would you blame a house holder for buying said house, he would be stupid not to.

You forgot about the savings made from ditching the heavily unionised and overstaffed cooncil staff employed to 'maintain' the old council houses.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You forgot about the savings made from ditching the heavily unionised and overstaffed cooncil staff employed to 'maintain' the old council houses.

People who were then left jobless along with the other 4 million who were unemployed at that time. Some could never find a job again.

 

[Del_Boy]

People who were then left jobless along with the other 4 million who were unemployed at that time. Some could never find a job again.

Whose fault was it that they couldn't find another job

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Whose fault was it that they couldn't find another job

Well considering a lot of them worked in an industry that was sold off or closed then a good deal of those would point the finger at the body of people who took the industry away.

 

[Del_Boy]

Well considering a lot of them worked in an industry that was sold off or closed then a good deal of those would point the finger at the body of people who took the industry away.

That answers why they lost their job not why they couldn't get another one

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That answers why they lost their job not why they couldn't get another one

Because there wasn't jobs for everyone to go around especially when some were specialised in trades that were no longer needed. Two of my uncles spent a decade trying to get a job - every day out in the job centre going around places begging for work - nothing

 

[Del_Boy]

Because there wasn't jobs for everyone to go around especially when some were specialised in trades that were no longer needed. Two of my uncles spent a decade trying to get a job - every day out in the job centre going around places begging for work - nothing

Appreciate you maybe extremely emotional about this and totally get the reason why but I don't see why it is whoever shut down an industry responsibility for finding people in that industry another job.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Was it that there weren't any jobs out there or that as is happening now people refusing to take jobs that they considered beneath them?

If you want to work then it is fairly easy to find a job. When I was made redundant I took a job in a call centre because I had to earn money to pay the bills. I could just have easily ended up working in a supermarket or anywhere else, but equally I could have decided that as I have a degree and other work related qualifications I could have sat on my backside and complained that there was no work out there for me.

There are jobs out there for people that want to work but it is far easy for them to whine and complain that they have lost their job and it's all the goverment's fault. It might not be your dream job or related to what you were doing before but it pays the bills and keeps food on the table and in my book that's the important thing.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Because there wasn't jobs for everyone to go around especially when some were specialised in trades that were no longer needed. Two of my uncles spent a decade trying to get a job - every day out in the job centre going around places begging for work - nothing

In that whole ten year period did they never even consider being self employed?

I know loads folk who were made unemployed during that time.
Many successfully started small businesses, remember 'loadsamoney'.
One of my friends went from being unemployed by BT to employing six staff within two years.

 

[Del_Boy]

Was it that there weren't any jobs out there or that as is happening now people refusing to take jobs that they considered beneath them?

If you want to work then it is fairly easy to find a job. When I was made redundant I took a job in a call centre because I had to earn money to pay the bills. I could just have easily ended up working in a supermarket or anywhere else, but equally I could have decided that as I have a degree and other work related qualifications I could have sat on my backside and complained that there was no work out there for me.

There are jobs out there for people that want to work but it is far easy for them to whine and complain that they have lost their job and it's all the goverment's fault. It might not be your dream job or related to what you were doing before but it pays the bills and keeps food on the table and in my book that's the important thing.

Great post