Technically, what is the earliest point you could win a singles matchplay game?

[clubchamp98]

I think in matchplay it’s loss of hole for the ball, ie, 3rd or 4th Hole opponent plays his ball off tee into rubbish, you find it and discover it’s a non-conforming one, he loses that hole, that’s is on top of any other previous issues, next hole you notice the Driver he uses is an old non-conforming one, another hole lost.

Wouldn’t he lose every hole he used it on ?
So he could be 5 up at the turn , you find out he has used a non cof driver or ball or both on every hole so he’s 9 down.
If he won the match and you found out after the 18 th he would surley be DQ.
Minefield.

 

[clubchamp98]

You don't "win 2 holes on any given hole". The score for the hole stands but the running score is adjusted to reduce the offender's score by one hole.
See 4.1b(4)

So if he hasn’t won any holes you can add the total to yours.

 

[backwoodsman]

The last figure I have is 17 - 15.

I don't doubt it, but when the "reveal" comes, I'm intrigued to see how this is achieved ?

 

[rulefan]

I don't doubt it, but when the "reveal" comes, I'm intrigued to see how this is achieved ?

This is from a note I wrote in 2015.
As it has never really concerned me I haven't checked if any 2019 changes have affected the answer.

A player carries a non-conforming club (Rule 4-1).
He changes the weight of his driver after teeing off, but he does not make a stroke with the club after the adjustment (Rule 4-2).
He starts his round with 15 clubs (Rule 4-4a).
He has two caddies (Rule 6-4).
He violates the one-ball condition on the opening two holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item 1c).
He has a parent as a caddie when they are not allowed (Appendix I, Part C, Item 2).
He takes an unauthorized ride in a cart on both holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item

.

If all of these violations are discovered on the second hole, each would carry a two-hole adjustment to the state of the match. That's 14 holes. Assuming the player also loses the first two holes, he now is 16 down with 16 to play.
His opponent could win the 18-hole match on the third hole by a score of 17 and 15.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is from a note I wrote in 2015.
As it has never really concerned me I haven't checked if any 2019 changes have affected the answer.

A player carries a non-conforming club (Rule 4-1).
He changes the weight of his driver after teeing off, but he does not make a stroke with the club after the adjustment (Rule 4-2).
He starts his round with 15 clubs (Rule 4-4a).
He has two caddies (Rule 6-4).
He violates the one-ball condition on the opening two holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item 1c).
He has a parent as a caddie when they are not allowed (Appendix I, Part C, Item 2).
He takes an unauthorized ride in a cart on both holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item

.

If all of these violations are discovered on the second hole, each would carry a two-hole adjustment to the state of the match. That's 14 holes. Assuming the player also loses the first two holes, he now is 16 down with 16 to play.
His opponent could win the 18-hole match on the third hole by a score of 17 and 15.

That’s good, hopefully if you ever get the time you tell us if the 2019 changes affect it.
What did yous come up with Pete?

 

[SammmeBee]

I think non-conforming club is straight DQ....

 

[davidy233]

I think non-conforming club is straight DQ....

rule fan actually quoted the rule number (4.1) which clearly says what happens in this situation - here's a link Non conforming club penalty in matchplay

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think non-conforming club is straight DQ....

Not necessarily, there is a difference between used and carried:

“If a non-conforming club, carried but not used, is discovered during a hole:

Match play – adjust state of match after hole is completed, deduct one hole for each hole where breach occurred, max of two holes.”

I think it is dq if used.

Edit: Just seen David’s reply.

 

[backwoodsman]

I think the following now applies - but happy to be corrected

This is from a note I wrote in 2015.
As it has never really concerned me I haven't checked if any 2019 changes have affected the answer.

A player carries a non-conforming club (Rule 4-1). Carrying: no penalty. Using: DQ
He changes the weight of his driver after teeing off, but he does not make a stroke with the club after the adjustment (Rule 4-2). Simply changing is no penalty, but using a changed club, DQ
He starts his round with 15 clubs (Rule 4-4a). Same - ie 1shot adjustment per hole
He has two caddies (Rule 6-4). Now gets the general penalty for each hole applicable - presumably a simple "loss of hole"
He violates the one-ball condition on the opening two holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item 1c). Don't know where to now look it up
He has a parent as a caddie when they are not allowed (Appendix I, Part C, Item 2). Don't know where to now look it up
He takes an unauthorized ride in a cart on both holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item

.Don't know where to now look it up

If all of these violations are discovered on the second hole, each would carry a two-hole adjustment to the state of the match. That's 14 holes. Assuming the player also loses the first two holes, he now is 16 down with 16 to play.
His opponent could win the 18-hole match on the third hole by a score of 17 and 15.

 

[Liverbirdie]

This is from a note I wrote in 2015.
As it has never really concerned me I haven't checked if any 2019 changes have affected the answer.

A player carries a non-conforming club (Rule 4-1).
He changes the weight of his driver after teeing off, but he does not make a stroke with the club after the adjustment (Rule 4-2).
He starts his round with 15 clubs (Rule 4-4a).
He has two caddies (Rule 6-4).
He violates the one-ball condition on the opening two holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item 1c).
He has a parent as a caddie when they are not allowed (Appendix I, Part C, Item 2).
He takes an unauthorized ride in a cart on both holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item

.

If all of these violations are discovered on the second hole, each would carry a two-hole adjustment to the state of the match. That's 14 holes. Assuming the player also loses the first two holes, he now is 16 down with 16 to play.
His opponent could win the 18-hole match on the third hole by a score of 17 and 15.

Cap well and trully doffed to you.

The honest answer is I dont know the answer, but what we surmised between us involved the following - all outside of a concession or a DQ.

All based on a singles (or pair) losing every hole played.

15 clubs in the bag - 2 holes

Turning up late (werent sure of the maximum lateness allowed and if it would end up being one or two holes also penalised).

Non-conforming club was also mentioned, but didnt include.

If in singles (and potentially also pairs), a player getting a hole in one, and him being "on a shot" on his opponent, or both opponents.

We guessed it being over on the 8th tee once the HIO was scored (if the player had a shot on his opponent(s)), carrying 15 clubs (and discovered after at least 2 holes played), 5 minutes late. 3 penalties applied, 8 holes played lost, so 11 down with only 10 left to play. .......I think.

So if Rulefan is bob on with his assessment, and taking the HIO into account, where does that leave us, and what is the 2017 answer and what is the 2020 answer?

Anything else we've missed out?

We also surmised that golf wasnt for the hypothetical golfer involved, as well, because not only was he late, had too many clubs of which at least one was non-conforming, couldn't even win one hole, but was also unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of a HIO by a higher handicap golfer, as well. Sounds like that dog "lucky".

 

[Liverbirdie]

Lateness .
If you arrive within 5 mins late ready to play you lose the first hole.
But do you still play that first hole?
How can you be 2 up after 1 hole?
Same with the to many club breaches can you win a hole that has been given to you by ops rule infringement.
So am going for 10&8 as you can’t win 2 holes on any given hole.

Peter say hello to Mr Glassman for me.

Certainly will, Bill - good company is our Irving.

 

[backwoodsman]

Cap well and trully doffed to you.

The honest answer is I dont know the answer, but what we surmised between us involved the following - all outside of a concession or a DQ.

All based on a singles (or pair) losing every hole played.

15 clubs in the bag - 2 holes

Turning up late (werent sure of the maximum lateness allowed and if it would end up being one or two holes also penalised).

Non-conforming club was also mentioned, but didnt include.

If in singles (and potentially also pairs), a player getting a hole in one, and him being "on a shot" on his opponent, or both opponents.

We guessed it being over on the 8th tee once the HIO was scored (if the player had a shot on his opponent(s)), carrying 15 clubs (and discovered after at least 2 holes played), 5 minutes late. 3 penalties applied, 8 holes played lost, so 11 down with only 10 left to play. .......I think.

So if Rulefan is bob on with his assessment, and taking the HIO into account, where does that leave us, and what is the 2017 answer and what is the 2020 answer?

Anything else we've missed out?

We also surmised that golf wasnt for the hypothetical golfer involved, as well, because not only was he late, had too many clubs of which at least one was non-conforming, couldn't even win one hole, but was also unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of a HIO by a higher handicap golfer, as well. Sounds like that dog "lucky".

Being late only gets you the general penalty so it would no better (ie no worse) than merely losing the hole in normal play. As mentioned previously, non-conforming clubs are now either no penalty (for just carrying) or DQ (for using). And dont get the gist of the hole in one on a "shot hole" thing - dont understand why it should somehow make a difference??

 

[Liverbirdie]

Being late only gets you the general penalty so it would no better (ie no worse) than merely losing the hole in normal play. As mentioned previously, non-conforming clubs are now either no penalty (for just carrying) or DQ (for using). And dont get the gist of the hole in one on a "shot hole" thing - dont understand why it should somehow make a difference??

The point of the HIO on the shot hole, was to highlight that only one single (or group) wouldnt tee off on that hole as the match would be over, as they cant better a HIO if the opponent had a shot on the single or over both of the opponents pair. Most answers would give "after walking off the, say, 9th green" but this would be in essence walking off the tee as the finish of a game. Slight semantics, but does add a little extra to the "at what point" question.

 

[USER1999]

Have we got a definitive answer using the latest rules yet?

 

[backwoodsman]

The point of the HIO on the shot hole, was to highlight that only one single (or group) wouldnt tee off on that hole as the match would be over, as they cant better a HIO if the opponent had a shot on the single or over both of the opponents pair. Most answers would give "after walking off the, say, 9th green" but this would be in essence walking off the tee as the finish of a game. Slight semantics, but does add a little extra to the "at what point" question.

Ah, ok. I get what you mean.

 

[Swango1980]

This is from a note I wrote in 2015.
As it has never really concerned me I haven't checked if any 2019 changes have affected the answer.

A player carries a non-conforming club (Rule 4-1).
He changes the weight of his driver after teeing off, but he does not make a stroke with the club after the adjustment (Rule 4-2).
He starts his round with 15 clubs (Rule 4-4a).
He has two caddies (Rule 6-4).
He violates the one-ball condition on the opening two holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item 1c).
He has a parent as a caddie when they are not allowed (Appendix I, Part C, Item 2).
He takes an unauthorized ride in a cart on both holes (Appendix I, Part C, Item

.

If all of these violations are discovered on the second hole, each would carry a two-hole adjustment to the state of the match. That's 14 holes. Assuming the player also loses the first two holes, he now is 16 down with 16 to play.
His opponent could win the 18-hole match on the third hole by a score of 17 and 15.

If this scenario ever happened, perhaps the offender needs to pick a different sport. He sounds like Mr Bean.

 

[clubchamp98]

If this scenario ever happened, perhaps the offender needs to pick a different sport. He sounds like Mr Bean.

I have met a couple that might qualify.
Seen a few very dodgy wedges.

 

[jim8flog]

I have met a couple that might qualify.
Seen a few very dodgy wedges.

That does remind me . I played a friendly match at one club with their chairman as an opponent. Being courteous and friendly I waited until we were in the car park together after the match to tell him that the double sided chipper he was using was not allowed. "Thanks" he said "I'll get rid of it". He turned up at our Open the following week with the club still in his bag.

 

[Swango1980]

My biggest win was in an club league match in fourball match play, 9&8. It could have been 10&8, but both myself and my partner had 7's on the easy par 5 5th hole, to halve the hole. I though we were so close to the perfect score, but seems we were miles away from the 17&15 scenario.

 

[rulefan]

Have we got a definitive answer using the latest rules yet?

As there is now only one breach that adjusts the match score (4.1b), you can get to dormie 10.
But a result can occur without playing any stroke on the 9th if a breach of certain rules occurs between the 8th green and 9th tee. ie When the breach happens or continues between two holes, you get the general penalty for the next hole.