Taking the game forward

[Hacker Khan]

As for mobiles, I have no problem with people carrying them in case they require to be contacted, but do you see a football player stopping mid game to send off a tweet or post a picture on facebook?

It's hardly a meaningful comparison when talking about being able to use a phone between a game in which people need to be constantly paying attention and following the game, and a game in which you are either walking or standing around not doing a great deal for vast majority of the time you are on the course.

I've taken pictures and tweeted several times from the golf course, there were pictures on twitter of the ball in the cup after my hole in 1 about 1 minute after the ball had rolled in there. Where's the problem with that?

 

[Simbo]

Young lads coming to the game aren't being forced to play in plus fours or tweed suits, look at rickie fowlers gear, something for the young lads to aspire to and want to wear, cool stuff with some street cred, no different from a young lad that plays football wanting to wear Nike boots because messi wears them or want a Chelsea shirt with lampard on the back. Then getting down the local pitch to show off his purchases to his mates. As has been stated kit for the situation.
Clubhouse rules should definitely be relaxed, ours quite is and we get free wifi in the clubhouse, the club uses Facebook, Twitter and has it's own website.
Phones on the course isn't a problem either as long as the user is being discreet using it.

 

[GB72]

Strictly playing devil’s advocate here as I agree with the on course dress code in the main, but the comparison with football etc is a bit of a red herring. You wear certain kit for football, rugby and other sports because it allows the performance that you need in a proper game. So, for example, jeans are heavy and restrict movement so are not any use to play most sports in. That said, tracksuit bottoms and a sports top would actually seem perfectly practical for a game of golf. What I would, perhaps, advocate, is a relaxation of the on course dress code in the summer after a certain time so people can drop in to the club for a quick knock after work. That seems practical, a reasonable medium and would have more people up the club on an evening.

With regards the clubhouse, I am very much of the view that pretty much all dress restrictions need to disappear. The simple fact is that the rules are set by, and a number of current members are, people of an age where trousers, shoes and a collared shirt are normal, everyday attire. To my mind you attract far more passing trade and have members stay longer if it was somewhere they can relax in whatever attire they see fit. I would quite happily treat my clubhouse like my local if I could wear jeans etc and it would be the start of many an evening out if I could wear my normal clothes. I am meeting my wife for lunch on Saturday. There is no reason why that could not be at the golf club if the rules were relaxed but my wife wears jeans all the time (even at work) and is not going to dress up for a few beers and a sandwich. She also wants to be in touch with her friends and check facebook at twitter etc so don’t ban phones, encourage them, give people free wi-fi in the clubhouse. Trust me, it will help attract a whole different crowd. If I think of our clubhouse like a pub, I ask if I would drink in there and the honest answer is, as it stands, no.

I also agree with the family element, with time demands as tight as they are, if people could have their family meet them at the club, they would spend more time and more money and there is just a chance that some of the family may develop an interest in taking up the game.

The problem is that clubs sit there with half empty bars and looking to attract more people yet try the same old things to attract them. That is why the survey that Mike H Referred to in his letter this week was of interest. It is not what a club needs to do to attract people interested in golf to the club, it is what it has to do to attract the others that is the issue and to clear the hurdles that are stopping people taking up the sport. It would be interesting to see the results if a club actually tried to do something a bit radical.

 

[mikee247]

Yep I agree a relaxed approach in the club house would be welcome to a lot of people customers and owners alike. We have it at our place, you can wear relaxed clothing and use phones etc within reason and it keeps the place relaxed but codes are retained on the course.

I'm not sure however dress codes effect youngsters playing golf or lack of will encourage more to play. In fact most youngsters who get into golf love the glamour and fashion that golfers like Poulter etc display. Good kit is always a seller in golf as well as other sports.

I think golfs biggest issue is things like the complexity and stupidity of the some of the rules and the complete lack of flexibility about changing them. Also the old school boys sat in the chesterfields sucking on a fat Havanna and Whiskeys Macs with their upper middle class attitudes holding on to antiquated ridiculous conditions in certain clubs and refuse to change their approach because it didnt happen in their day....are the major problem (probably the same ones that are still opposed to female membership). These people typify what is wrong with the sport and their lack approach to the youth of today and lack of understanding of what today's kids are like, makes youngsters feel like they are not welcome and so they either go elsewhere or play another sport. If the R&A changed to become more approachable and made more of an effort then this would be a start. Its an image thing..... Even now golf is not seen as cool enough and these guys dont help.... Im not suggesting changing all the history, tradition and
etiquette compiled into the sport, that is very important and of course should remain and respected. I ask you when that bloke from the R&A starts waffling on how many kids really listen to his "plum in the mouth" tones??? He's completely out of touch lets be honest unless you are studying at Eaton or Harrow....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Some interesting points.

As for letting people play in joggers & football shirts, I disagree, at most clubs I go to it is the juniors who look smartest, in the most fashionable golfing attire. After all, they aren't paying for it from their pocket money or paper round, the Bank of Mum & Dad has paid.

And I fear all of tht is one of the big blockers to getting youngsters playing - this attitude about it being important what you wear fashion-wise and what gear you got just has to go. Not so sure about joggers and a QPR shirt - but as I have suggested elsewhere that skinny jeans and a 'metalhead' tee shirt would be OK - maybe I'm splitting hairs.
When youngsters play in mixed-age group in a comp let's say then maybe you say that there is a dress code for such circumstances. But even then I'm beginning to wonder if that is necessary. And so despite my own prejudices and 'traditional values' in this respectI find myself edging towards a very liberal wear almost whatever you want (as long as not offensive to others in any way).

Because in the end - what does it matter to me what an 18yr old lad wears while playing if he is enjoying himself.

USed to be said that your standard of dress was a reflection on your standard of behaviour. But that isn't and actually never was true - it was just a hang over from victorian class attitiudes and the split being poor and rich and was simply an indicator of what you could afford.

 

[Wabinez]

I am intrigued that all conversations regarding getting more people playing golf comes down to dress codes. I don't think I have ever met anyone who says they won't play golf as they aren't allowed to wear jeans...!

Open days, making it more accessible for youngsters (maybe some sort of initiative from the government to include in school PE lessons) etc is the case. Whatever happens, it needs to happen sharpish, as the kids of today are tomorrow's members!

 

[Slab]

Going back to the opening post... When you say you’ve found it near impossible to get youngsters into the game, what else have they said to you when they tell you they’re not interested?

• Have they really said no because I can’t tweet or update my FB in the clubhouse? (how would they even know they might not be able to do this)
• Have they really said ‘not interested’ because I can’t wear my baseball cap indoors?

I’m just not sure this is the real reasons youngsters aren't taking up golf


Separately looking at your solution I agree a relaxing of mobile communication would be appreciated by many members (assuming it’s even prohibited in the first place as some clubs already allow this and even have wifi ) & no doubt it would be opposed by others but it won’t be the catalyst for a youngster to decide whether to play or not

Open days and range days for juniors sound like good ideas and plenty courses already do this type of thing

Not sure about dress codes on course only for comp days though what happens when a comp group or two is mixed in with social groups at the same time, it would have to be all or nothing

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Isn't this thread a duplicate of the 'hack' thread?

 

[GB72]

I would also add that this spreads further than just the youngsters. I am over 40 years old and my normal clothes are not acceptable in the club and I also feel that I am looked down on by the older generation.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would also add that this spreads further than just the youngsters. I am over 40 years old and my normal clothes are not acceptable in the club and I also feel that I am looked down on by the older generation.

With you on that - I have 'joking' had mention to me of the state of my near 30yr old Pringle Jerseys - they are my golf jerseys - they've got holes in them here and there and are transparent at the lower back where my carry bag has worn the wool thin. So what? Comments haven't stopped me wearing them. I just say - this is one of my golf jerseys - that I wear to play golf - I like it.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Im not sure the problem is dress codes. I think the vast majority of youngsters who are likely to take up golf aren't going to be put off by having to wear trousers. I started playing golf when I was 13 and for a few years it wasn't a problem as my dad played and was happy to take me to courses and pay for me to play. However when I left school and he stopped playing, I couldn't afford a membership on crappy apprentice wages and neither could my friends so over time we all stopped playing. We've only really started again in the last couple of years now that we have the disposable income to warrant it.

My point is this, I came back to golf once I could afford it but only because my parents were able to pay for me when I was younger. Kids whose parents can't afford to pay for clubs, clothes, balls, lessons, green fees etc. are fighting a losing battle from the start. And even if they do manage to get through the door of a club they then have to put up with the antiquated ways of some of the older members. Also it was ok for me and my mates as all of our dads played but if neither parent plays golf it must be difficult for kids to convince their parents to take them to a course and wait around for four hours while they have a game.

 

[GB72]

Yes but it is the attitude, perceived or otherwise, that stops people making the initial approach to a golf club and it is not just juniors. How many threads on here have we seen along the lines of 'Looking to Join a Golf Club, How Should I Act/Dress' 'Got an Interview at a Club, what to I need to Say' 'Joined a club, how do I find a game' Having Trouble finding people to sign my cards' etc. Golf clubs much come across to people as the most officious, unfriendly, rule driven, stuffy, antiquated facilities known to man and these are from grown men not just kids and juniors.

Clubs need to be more relaxed, more open, more approachable and, in general, more friendly if they want to grow their membership and allowing people to dress and act in a relaxed manner is a start.

 

[1948griff]

Yes but it is the attitude, perceived or otherwise, that stops people making the initial approach to a golf club and it is not just juniors. How many threads on here have we seen along the lines of 'Looking to Join a Golf Club, How Should I Act/Dress' 'Got an Interview at a Club, what to I need to Say' 'Joined a club, how do I find a game' Having Trouble finding people to sign my cards' etc. Golf clubs much come across to people as the most officious, unfriendly, rule driven, stuffy, antiquated facilities known to man and these are from grown men not just kids and juniors.

Clubs need to be more relaxed, more open, more approachable and, in general, more friendly if they want to grow their membership and allowing people to dress and act in a relaxed manner is a start.

Still not convinced that a change to on course dress will attract members, but agree 100% with the points you make at the end.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Yes but it is the attitude, perceived or otherwise, that stops people making the initial approach to a golf club and it is not just juniors. How many threads on here have we seen along the lines of 'Looking to Join a Golf Club, How Should I Act/Dress' 'Got an Interview at a Club, what to I need to Say' 'Joined a club, how do I find a game' Having Trouble finding people to sign my cards' etc. Golf clubs much come across to people as the most officious, unfriendly, rule driven, stuffy, antiquated facilities known to man and these are from grown men not just kids and juniors.

Clubs need to be more relaxed, more open, more approachable and, in general, more friendly if they want to grow their membership and allowing people to dress and act in a relaxed manner is a start.

What he said.

Just letting people wear smart jeans in the clubhouse on its own will make next to chuff all difference. In fact I am prepared to bet that if all clubs relaxed the dress codes and said that people could wear what they felt comfortable in, then 98% of the people currently playing the game would still wear what they have always done. And at worst you'd see a few untucked shirts and off white socks in the summer. Also the new people turning up in tracksuit bottoms and football shirts would be minimal. As CBGB72 said, it's about making some changes in the short term and changing the perception in the long term to make the game seem more attractive to all.

I really like Troon Golf's way of doing it

Attire - Socially accepted golf shirts are appreciated, but your comfort is most important. The nicer you look, the better you will play, so goes the rumor. Shorts can be just about any style, but please do try to present them at a length that everyone wants to look at and remember that gym shorts are for the gym.

Footwear - Footwear is encouraged on the course for reasons of safety and should be of a type and style that will not damage the putting greens. On that note, no high heels, boots or the like please.

Attire - Clubhouse attire should be comfortable and follow event specific requirements. Denim is welcomed in the clubhouse at appropriate times.

Footwear - Footwear is always required in the clubhouse. The club would prefer to see something other than sneakers during dinner hours and special events.

To me that is the way forwards as it seems to be a compromise between the 'people must dress like they did in the 1950s/etiquette brigade' with the more modern way of dressing.

I would be really interested if people thought by changing their dress code to something like this it would be a step back and courses would be full of hooded youths.

No single initiative will make a huge difference on it's own, but that does not mean the anti-change brigade should just reject any initiative due to that fact. But doing this together with other initiatives to make the game more welcoming and inclusive will in the long term make a big difference.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Yes but it is the attitude, perceived or otherwise, that stops people making the initial approach to a golf club and it is not just juniors. How many threads on here have we seen along the lines of 'Looking to Join a Golf Club, How Should I Act/Dress' 'Got an Interview at a Club, what to I need to Say' 'Joined a club, how do I find a game' Having Trouble finding people to sign my cards' etc. Golf clubs much come across to people as the most officious, unfriendly, rule driven, stuffy, antiquated facilities known to man and these are from grown men not just kids and juniors.

Clubs need to be more relaxed, more open, more approachable and, in general, more friendly if they want to grow their membership and allowing people to dress and act in a relaxed manner is a start.

True but if you can't get people to take the game up and get them to the clubs in the first place all that will do is make it a nicer place for people who are going to be members regardless.

 

[bluewolf]

As I've stated elsewhere. One of the reasons for moving to my current club was a completely different attitude to the game. My old club was a traditional members club that had set rules for almost every situation. The dress code was as you would expect. Mobile phones weren't allowed at all. Coats could not be hung on the back of chairs (my favourite) and many many more. I didn't really have a problem with this as they were the rules when I joined...

BUT, after playing at the new club with a friend, I noticed a completely different attitude. Jeans were allowed in the clubhouse. You were encouraged to bring family down. Wi-Fi was freely available. A big TV had sport on in the main area. Fun initiatives were being introduced to try and make golf appeal to everyone (including my personal favourite where every player has to wear the loudest clothes they can find). I know where I prefer to be. But I also appreciate that there are plenty who prefer the traditional approach. Unfortunately for them, the numbers appear to be dwindling in that camp (based on how busy my old club is compared to my new.)

 

[bluewolf]

True but if you can't get people to take the game up and get them to the clubs in the first place all that will do is make it a nicer place for people who are going to be members regardless.

But my old club did not actively encourage my kids into the clubhouse. Which in turn meant that they have not developed an interest in the game. My new club IS actively encouraging them and therefore there is a CHANCE that they may develop an interest.. They're playing the long game..:thup:

 

[MegaSteve]

Fair to say that around here there are 'facilities' that represent both sides of opinion and many more that fit in the middle... Don't see too many that prefer the formal approach arguing for change elsewhere... So why do those that prefer the informal approach see it necessary for requiring all 'facilities' provide them with their view on it... There is usually something for everyone out there you know...

Oh... I wish the phrase smart jeans/denim fell into disuse...

 

[stevie_r]

True but if you can't get people to take the game up and get them to the clubs in the first place all that will do is make it a nicer place for people who are going to be members regardless.

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

 

[bluewolf]

Fair to say that around here there are 'facilities' that represent both sides of opinion and many more that fit in the middle... Don't see too many that prefer the formal approach arguing for change elsewhere... So why do those that prefer the informal approach see it necessary for requiring all 'facilities' provide them with their view on it... There is usually something for everyone out there you know...

Oh... I wish the phrase smart jeans/denim fell into disuse...

im not arguing for change. I think that change will happen though. I'm a firm believer in their being a broad selection of clubs that appeal to all. That way everyone can get what they want. But, this thread is about how we can move the game forward and people are just making suggestions. If it was about how a club should be run, then you may get different answers.