ChilliPepper
Newbie
Not at all but in my opinion its not really moving the game forward by encouraging youngsters either.
Taking the game forward
- Thread starter golfdub
- Start date
Not at all but in my opinion its not really moving the game forward by encouraging youngsters either.
ChilliPepper
Newbie
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
What I should have perhaps said... Why do all threads regarding taking the game forward centre around changing the ways of the old school... When this happens by way of natural progression as evidenced by the wide array of choices already available...
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Simbo
Tour Rookie
So what are you classing as "youngsters" ??? Our club has a huge junior section, can't remember the exact number but it's at least 80. And a lot of their parents don't play at our club, a lot if them do aswell though.
Yet our club ran a survey and we only had 6 members aged between 21-30.
Reason for that for me is these young lads/girls are brought by parents, once they have freedom of choice when they are 17/18, start driving cars, able to get into pubs, getting a girl, etc etc, all of sudden golf seems expensive/boring and can hamper the party lifestyle. Once they get into their 20's they start getting married/having kids/buying houses once again golf seems an expense that can't be afforded.
Our club tried to find a way around it by offering a money sliding scale for those under 30, 16-21 you pay 50% of adult fees, 21-25 you pay 60%, then 25-30 you pay 70%. We also offer a rolling year membership.
And still the number if members get smaller each year????????
Yet our club ran a survey and we only had 6 members aged between 21-30.
Reason for that for me is these young lads/girls are brought by parents, once they have freedom of choice when they are 17/18, start driving cars, able to get into pubs, getting a girl, etc etc, all of sudden golf seems expensive/boring and can hamper the party lifestyle. Once they get into their 20's they start getting married/having kids/buying houses once again golf seems an expense that can't be afforded.
Our club tried to find a way around it by offering a money sliding scale for those under 30, 16-21 you pay 50% of adult fees, 21-25 you pay 60%, then 25-30 you pay 70%. We also offer a rolling year membership.
And still the number if members get smaller each year????????
GB72
Money List Winner
I use this argument because there is no viable alternative to the old school near me so golfers take it or leave it and I know enough who fall into the second camp. If there was a choice between relaxed and traditional then I would go relaxed every time.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
I stated in another thread that my kids think Golf is "boring". They can't understand the rules, they think it's too slow and they have very few real "character" golfers to aspire to be like. Slow play is probably the biggest obstacle for kids. They're used to everything being fast paced and exciting, then they see Zach Johnson or Kevin Na spend several minutes preparing to take a single shot. They don't understand it and they therefore discount it. The authorities need to make a real stand and start heavily penalizing the offenders.. Until that time, the game just won't appeal to the majority of kids, especially those who don't have someone to explain it to them.
Maybe it's a good thing that people are clamoring for change. It may be a sign that the tipping point has been reached and that change will be accelerated. I do agree that it is only one aspect of the game though, and that if the game was made more appealing, then the Clubhouse would matter less. I remember when my Rugby Club insisted on shirts and ties on game day. Plenty moaned, but we were a successful Club, with a good first team.. No one left.. At the end of the day, the game is what matters most.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'd question whether allowing someone to update FB and Tweet is actually 'taking the game forward'! Is it something that's allowed/sensible in other pastimes? And if it's holding other players up, as it's likely to, I'd be against it, along with receiving an excessive number of calls (or making any non-critical ones really).
No problem with minimal/No Dress Code for Juniors. I laughed when the only person dressed slobbier than me challenged a Junior who was wearing a Cap in the Clubhouse. It's not unreasonable to have SOME rules, but better to let Club-House management decide them according to the situation imo. Too many old-farts about, but a few too many rebels at all levels too!
I don't believe slow play is actually an issue for Juniors, but the length of time a round takes quite probably is! The attention span of a teenager is not much!
And it would be nice to ask what the OP REALLY meant by 'moving the game forward'. Seems it's just about getting more Juniors playing, which may/may not be 'moving the game forward'!
I know of someone who seems to want it to change, but go backwards!
No problem with minimal/No Dress Code for Juniors. I laughed when the only person dressed slobbier than me challenged a Junior who was wearing a Cap in the Clubhouse. It's not unreasonable to have SOME rules, but better to let Club-House management decide them according to the situation imo. Too many old-farts about, but a few too many rebels at all levels too!
I don't believe slow play is actually an issue for Juniors, but the length of time a round takes quite probably is! The attention span of a teenager is not much!
And it would be nice to ask what the OP REALLY meant by 'moving the game forward'. Seems it's just about getting more Juniors playing, which may/may not be 'moving the game forward'!
I know of someone who seems to want it to change, but go backwards!
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D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Exactly!
In this modern world where instant thrills and gratification are sought by so many a sport that takes 3 to 4 hours to play is never going to appeal to the mainstream of twenty to thirty five year olds.
By all means relax dress codes and introduce reduced subscriptions for different age groups but, based upon the evidence from our club where these are in effect, it will make damn all difference. The majority of new member applications continue to be from under 18's (generally members' children) and over 35's .
The conference that Mike Harris attended did not appear to face up to reality shown in the survey released last week. Participation levels are down across the board including sports far more mainstream than golf such as football.
No, what is needed is a complete culture change throughout society to get far more people playing all sports. Unfortunately, however, due to the time issue golf is never likely to be a major beneficiary of such a change and the sooner the "industry" realises that and adjusts its expectations the better for us all.
ChilliPepper
Newbie
I have always wondered why no one has devised a simplified game that kids can play much like touch rugby. Simplified rules, and a shot clock over nine holes may keep the attention of younger kids until they start to understand why the Zach Johnsons and Kevin Na's take so long and they can be slowly integrated into the full game. Although this may cause its own problems if they decide that the simplified game they used to play is more fun.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Fully agree, although I think that quite a lot of people would complain if the course was over-run with kids every week.
. However, my local Muni has a great little 9 hole par 3 practise course that would be ideal for introducing kids to the game. Nothing over 200 yards and cheap to play..:thup:stevie_r
Tour Winner
I would be keen to hear whether those clubs that have relaxed rules on dress, phone usage etc have seen a significant increase in kids coming into the game, I would suspect not. The clubs willingness to move forward and change with the times is commendable but these initiatives are a bit piece meal, they may benefit the club to a degree but not necessarily the game as a whole.
A properly thought out centrally driven strategy is required, driven and led by Golf Unions at country level, supported if possible by the appropriate government department. It does of course require as many clubs as possible to also buy into it. We have club golf Scotland, I don't profess to know all the ins and outs of it and indeed whether it has been as successful as was envisaged but it is making an effort. Perhaps Doon, with his background in golf management, would be able to comment further.
A few facts and figures from the website:
220,000 kids introduced to the game since inception.
38,000+ kids participating in ClubGolf in primary schools
1,500+ volunteer coaches active in clubs.
303 clubs and facilities delivering the coaching programme - supported by 126 pros.
15.7% - Transition rate from schools to clubs.
£500,000 - Scottish Governments investment in the programme every year through Sport Scotland
The web site is here:
http://www.clubgolfscotland.com/
A properly thought out centrally driven strategy is required, driven and led by Golf Unions at country level, supported if possible by the appropriate government department. It does of course require as many clubs as possible to also buy into it. We have club golf Scotland, I don't profess to know all the ins and outs of it and indeed whether it has been as successful as was envisaged but it is making an effort. Perhaps Doon, with his background in golf management, would be able to comment further.
A few facts and figures from the website:
220,000 kids introduced to the game since inception.
38,000+ kids participating in ClubGolf in primary schools
1,500+ volunteer coaches active in clubs.
303 clubs and facilities delivering the coaching programme - supported by 126 pros.
15.7% - Transition rate from schools to clubs.
£500,000 - Scottish Governments investment in the programme every year through Sport Scotland
The web site is here:
http://www.clubgolfscotland.com/
golfdub
Tour Rookie
The dress code sets the game all the youngsters think its an old mans game because of what they see golfers wear, its about bringing this game to the NOW times and realise golf doesn't look cool if your under 35 (im 28) as for rickie fowler I would put £1000 that only 1 in 1000 under 16's know who he is.
yea have the proper golf attire for competitions but if we had more open days for under 16 's to learn the basics and play FREE FUN golf and show them its a fun sport also it will teach them dedication and respect
ChilliPepper
Newbie
Fully agree, although I think that quite a lot of people would complain if the course was over-run with kids every week.
Yeah see your point and im not sure of the situation elsewhere but here in Gloucestershire there are quite a few short nine hole courses that would work well. But then saying that I took a day off work to play at my club with a few mates midweek and it was dead, we were the only ones there. If a lot of clubs are the same could they work with schools to get kids up there one day a week?
golfdub
Tour Rookie
Also it would be pointless changing the dress code without advertising it, no point in just letting members know. I really think the face of the game has to change Don't get me wrong I love the game and what it is but I worry that when I'm 60 and playing I might be the youngest member.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
We've got an Artisans section and they have their own changing room, club room and kitchen as part of our new greenkeepers complex. Maybe we should can the Artisans section or just do away with them having their own facilities - and turn that over to the ju.niors. Let them do pretty much what they want in there and even maybe let them run their own soft drinks,snacks, teas and coffee. A junior clubhouse Radical
Radical
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
My club is a fairly standard members Club. We have a very strong Junior section that is thriving, it seems that success builds on success, these juniors always seem to be enjoying themselves and get great support from many older members (Old farts) who give quite a bit of their time assisting them with their comps and team events.
Its great to see these young boys and girls playing and enjoying golf. Most will move away from the game in their late teens due to other priorities and interests and will hopefully come back to the game in later life.
I also work at another club which is a Propriety owned club but the junior situation is very similar. It seems that youngsters need to have help and support to enable them to enjoy the game, I doubt if dress codes and mobile phones are much of a problem to the enthusiastic junior.
Is there really such a big problem out there?
Its great to see these young boys and girls playing and enjoying golf. Most will move away from the game in their late teens due to other priorities and interests and will hopefully come back to the game in later life.
I also work at another club which is a Propriety owned club but the junior situation is very similar. It seems that youngsters need to have help and support to enable them to enjoy the game, I doubt if dress codes and mobile phones are much of a problem to the enthusiastic junior.
Is there really such a big problem out there?
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I do agree that some rules need to be relaxed,jeans in the club house shouldn't even be an issue IMO. Nothing wrong with jeans,trainers & a polo shirt. Not so sure about football tops & jogging bottoms tho. & I'm sorry but anyone that as a problem with some one else playing golf with their t shirt untucked needs to have a word with themselves.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
With you about footy shirts and joggers - and not really sure why. probably because footy tops just are not necessary when anythinog else can be worn and joggers can be just too sloppy and all over the shop.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I do own a pair of joggers,but only wear them when dossing in the house. I do still think people should make an effort when playing golf or using the club house,I just think times have changed.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Believe it or not we've come a long way with juniors at golf clubs. When I was a junior, we could only stand by the bar door and naturally enough were left until the back of the queue to get served. We could only sit in the snooker room, and were usually chased out of there if members were playing, or in the locker room. There were precious few comps and opportunities to integrate with adult members few and far between.
At my club there is now a flourishing junior section, a junior academy to introduce new kids to the game and they are invited to play comps v the women and mens section as well as a flourishing junior fixture list. They can sit in the clubhouse and are treated as adults. They reciprocate in terms of their behaviour
At my club there is now a flourishing junior section, a junior academy to introduce new kids to the game and they are invited to play comps v the women and mens section as well as a flourishing junior fixture list. They can sit in the clubhouse and are treated as adults. They reciprocate in terms of their behaviour
