Swing Changes

[birdieman]

I'll admit it and say I've never met anyone who has mentioned stack and tilt, in fact had never heard of it until JOUK mentioned it a good while ago. I did look up some articles on it and the theory does seem sound.
I think if it really takes off in the Pro ranks then more and more amateurs will look into it. Until that happens I think PGA pros will teach amateurs the way they know, won't they?
I will stick with a conventional weight shift swing for now, in fact need to load the right thigh more on the backswing at times (maybe I'm already part S&T and don't know it ), as I'm getting on ok with my regular swing. I don't want to get too experimental or have a total swing rebuild but admire those that do try a wholescale change of method.....brave people .

 

[CrapHacker]

I disagree with the OP and have tried to write a response since it first appeared, but it keeps on sounding insulting or dismissive - neither of which is what I want to say.

So if this sounds wrong, I'll apologise now.

Surely the whole argument is wrong. A golf swing is totally unnatural for anyone. When we started we none of us broke 120 first time out.

So we all worked on swing changes to get something that works for us.

After that it's all a degree of natural talent, what we each want to achieve, and where we reach our plateau.

Every time we practise we are trying to get our muscle memory to do something repeatedly that is unnatural to it. Surely that's a swing change, to some degree or other.

If any of us hasn't reached the limits of our talent then practise will help us get to a certain point. To get beyond that most of us will have to consider more emphatic swing changes.

The question then is, how much effort are we each prepared to put it to achieve it ?

If we cant/wont put that extra effort in, then we have to live with our own limitations.

I believe there have been many more natural talents than Faldo, but his willingness to put in the extra effort set him above the rest.

Basically I'm saying swing changes are a must for everyone, or we're all guilty of giving in too easily.

<font color="pink"> No offence meant to anyone out there

 

[JustOne]

Until that happens I think PGA pros will teach amateurs the way they know, won't they?

This is the key, I have to teach myself as there's no pro's near me who teach it. It makes it even more startling to me just how simple it must be if I can hit the ball un-aided.
Once (or should that be if/when) your local pro teaches stack and tilt it will be EVERYWHERE.

I disagree with the OP and have tried to write a response since it first appeared, but it keeps on sounding insulting or dismissive - neither of which is what I want to say.

So if this sounds wrong, I'll apologise now.

HA! I wrote mine about 8 times and it still came out crap

 

[JustOne]

http://www.charlierose.com/

Oops, forgot to post the link for the chat show.

Thanks for the link, was an interesting video. I find it all pretty compelling. I actually emailed them through their site and asked who they were currently teaching as it was hard to justify a swing that everyone appeared to be leaving... nice to see an up to date vid.

 

[kid2]

If a swing is good enough to get you down to playing off 8 there cant be alot wrong with it.

Sorry, have to disagree with that.

If you want to get a h/cap of 2 or 3 but only have a swing good enough to get you to 8 then you're screwed!




Justoneuk, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on the above.
Most golfers strive to get to single figures im one myself but to say that your screwed at a handicap of 8 if your swing isn't good doesnt even make sense...
I think you missed the point in Imurgs post he said he has been as low as 8.1 but what prevented him from getting lower was parenting and injury nothing to do with a bad swing.....Look at Jim Furyk..
And there is no such thing as a perfect swing a better ball striker you may become, but you might still have an ugly swing....
Obviously if your off 2 or 3 and can maintain it whats the issue.... Pro's have been known to mess up shots..Tigers swing with a driver has all the finesse of bambi on ice at times..Iv seen jiminez swing 3 times at a ball on the first cut of grass alonside a green 20ft from the pin with a 60* lob wedge and go completely underthe ball on each occasion....
When i get down to 2 or 3 ill be happy and ill know ill have achieved it by myself whether my swing looks good or not....

 

[USER1999]

Through the ball, Furyk's swing is awesome.

Players aren't moving away from S&T, they are incorporating the bits they want, and moving on. People do that, however sucessful they are. Grass is greener etc. Tiger dumped Hank Haney, Butch Harmon, etc, this doesn't make them crap.

These are also the top, top golfers in the world.

If 90% of golfers hit left to right, and S&T got them hitting right to left, would this help? So what if 200 supermen pro's can do this naturally? S&T would benefit the AVERAGE golfer. That is what it is all about.

 

[CrapHacker]

When i get down to 2 or 3 ill be happy and ill know ill have achieved it by myself whether my swing looks good or not....

If you can get down to 2 or 3 by yourself, I'd reckon the chances are you could have got down to scratch with a bit of help.

Just because you might consider lessons, a good pro doesn't have to make them technical if you do better without too much detail.

Don't forget, for every Furyk on the tour, there are a dozen Adam Scotts.

 

[JustOne]

I think you missed the point in Imurgs post he said he has been as low as 8.1 but what prevented him from getting lower was parenting and injury nothing to do with a bad swing.....Look at Jim Furyk..

On the contrary, I think you should know a little about Jim Furyks swing before mentioning it in the context of a bad swing (if you can't see the 2 images you need to refresh the page).

This is Jim Furyk at the TOP of his backswing

Red = Spine pointing TOWARDS the target as in Stack and tilt
Yellow = Eyes right OVER the ball as in stack and tilt (couldn't be more vertical!!)
Green = Stacked on the LEFT as in stack and tilt.

I'd say that was fairly conclusive.


However, if you're not sold on that, here's a 5 handicapper at the TOP of his backswing..... he won't be a 2 handicapper anytime soon, well not in my lifetime.

Red = Spine pointing away from target
Yellow = Eyes are nowhere near the ball
Green = Stuck on the back leg

I know which one I'd rather be... the one on tour with the stack and tilt basics incorporated in his swing. Who'd have thought it!

 

[kid2]

Sorry Justoneuk......


My fingers were working a little faster than my brain last night ....I didnt mean to imply Furyk had a bad swing what i was trying to get at was that everyones swing is different....Furyk's success alone answers anyone that might think his swing is bad( im not one by the way)
His ball striking alone is immaculate....You have basically answered your own post above by saying that the 5 handicapper isn's going to turn pro in your lifetime in your opinion so why would pay money to try and change a swing that is only being used for recreational purposes....

I still stand by my opinion that i dont see the point of paying someone for lessons if you've got a pretty good natural ability to play the game..
Its a passtime for most players to get away from it all and wind down and yes we take it serious at times but lets face reality here ... I dont think that there are many weekend club golfers which, the majority of players are, going to turn pro anytime soon so why would you be overloading your mind with technical issues of a swing that your probably not going to completely master in your golfing lifetime.
The difference with the pro's is that there life is golf its there job.....They dont get broken sleep from a newborn crying every two hours for a feed,Joe average having to get up at 5a.m. every morning to commute 2 hrs to work a 10 hour day and maybe work a job that their on there feet all day....Go and play with there sunday morning 4 ball after maybe working till 3 or 4 a.m. the night before....The pro's have a coach for everything these days which most can well afford.....
If im picking you up right what your basically saying is that if you have 2 players A and B playing off 3 for arguments sake and player A gets there through lessons his swing is fairly comfortable and player B gets there through his own merit, swing may not look the best but he still gets the ball in the hole then your saying that this is not right.....Your original post says that your mate has a swing like a bag of eels and that he plays off of low single figures and that you wouldn't want his swing if you were paid.Can i ask the question how he has got to this handicap if his swing is that bad.....
The whole point of the game is to get the ball in the hole in par or better...He's obviously doing something right...
Anyway we are all friends here with one thing in common to get the ball from A to B and into C some do it more comfortable than the other but at the end of the day the outcome is the same...

 

[JustOne]

Can i ask the question how he has got to this handicap if his swing is that bad.....

You can get to a certain level with any swing, even a fundamentally bad swing but at some stage you're going to reach it's limits. In his case he's kinda plateau'd at 5, his short game and putting are pretty solid but there's no way he will be consistent enough with that swing to get any lower (in my opinion).

The thread is about swing changes, I decided to change mine, hopefully for the better, some people just like to tinker with a tweak here, a tweak there and literally keep on tweaking forever, others I guess are already happy with what they have and therefore aren't privvy to this thread

I understand Imurg being happy with his swing, my mate seems fairly happy with his although he seems to be tinkering with it every 5 min

Some people just want to get out and enjoy it and some people want to see just how good they really can be at the game - each to their own, literally.
It's great that Imurg feels that he could have been better than 8.1 although saying it and doing it in this game are a mile apart.

I changed my swing for two reasons, a) I wanted to score better and b) Because I simply wasn't enjoying the game as much as I thought I should be. Seeing as I'm still playing the game then at least B has worked

Furyk's swing always seems to crop up in discussions about unorthadox swings, it happens. There are a lot of different swings on the pro Tours but the fundamentals have to be right. If you are not scoring well enough then the first place you should look is at your swing fundamentals.... and/or fix it if it's not right... in my opinion again..and that's provided that you WANT to.

...Simples.

 

[kid2]

Well im glad it hasn't come to blows....
And being honest i hope to get there on my own merit,as you said easier said than done but ill have fun trying.....
Off my handicap(20) im sure ill meet hurdles, few i hope but one day maybe ill have to be true to myself and give in to a lesson (hopefully not) but trust me when i say this, when i do ill definately post it and you can say i told you so and ill tip my hat humbley too you

 

[JustOne]

im sure ill meet hurdles, few i hope but one day maybe ill have to be true to myself and give in to a lesson (hopefully not) but trust me when i say this, when i do ill definately post it and you can say i told you so and ill tip my hat humbley too you

I've never had a lesson so there's no reason why you should.

Just be honest to yourself and if you feel that something isn't right CHANGE IT, the last thing you want is to be aiming 45° right, cutting across yourself with a huge over the top swing, turning to your friends and saying "Well, I find the fairway so I'm happy". Well, that's the last thing that I would want I try to keep the fundamentals right, you are a 20 handicapper so you might aswell try and start off on the right foot... erm, or left foot if you're going for stack and tilt