Subsequent relief after drop in relief area

[Peet]

Our club currently has a 1 club preferred lie rule for a ball on the fairway.
If I take Back-On-Line relief from a Yellow Penalty Area the relief area is on the fairway.
Q1 Am I allowed to use the preferred lie rule to place the ball outside the original relief area after I made the drop?
Q2 Am I allowed to use the preferred lie rule when using the 2 club lateral relief rule IRO an unplayable ball if the relief area extends to the fairway? - In theory my final relief could then be 3 clubs (2+1).
Feedback and advice will be appreciated

 

[doublebogey7]

I would say Yes to both as the penalty relief is a different situation than the preferred lies relief.

 

[rulie]

Agree with "yes to both". They are different situations - you've finished with the PA or unplayable relief and now your ball is in a position where LCP applies.
Same would happen if you were taking free relief from an abnormal course condition (GUR, IO, temporary water) and dropped within the relief area. If the ball now lies where the LCP applies, you're entitled to use LCP.

 

[rulefan]

Our club currently has a 1 club preferred lie rule for a ball on the fairway.
If I take Back-On-Line relief from a Yellow Penalty Area the relief area is on the fairway.
Q1 Am I allowed to use the preferred lie rule to place the ball outside the original relief area after I made the drop?
Q2 Am I allowed to use the preferred lie rule when using the 2 club lateral relief rule IRO an unplayable ball if the relief area extends to the fairway? - In theory my final relief could then be 3 clubs (2+1).
Feedback and advice will be appreciated

As the two replies above but being curious why is your club not using the 6" rule?

 

[rulie]

As the two replies above but being curious why is your club not using the 6" rule?

What is the 6" rule? The Model Local Rule does not specify a distance, leaving that to the Committee who implements the MLR.

 

[wjemather]

What is the 6" rule? The Model Local Rule does not specify a distance, leaving that to the Committee who implements the MLR.

In GB&I, CONGU limits the relief area to 6" from the reference point in order for scores to remain acceptable for handicapping.

 

[rulie]

In GB&I, CONGU limits the relief area to 6" from the reference point in order for scores to remain acceptable for handicapping.

Understood, as a handicapping rule, and, imo, a hindrance to players being able to enter more scores for handicapping purposes.

 

[rulefan]

, imo, a hindrance to players being able to enter more scores for handicapping purposes.

Not sure I agree. It has been the norm in GB&I since Adam was a lad so players are used to it. And from what is being reported the number of handicap rounds is going up like a rocket.

 

[doublebogey7]

Not sure I agree. It has been the norm in GB&I since Adam was a lad so players are used to it. And from what is being reported the number of handicap rounds is going up like a rocket.

Only if their clubs choose to go beyond the 6inch limit.

 

[rulefan]

Only if their clubs choose to go beyond the 6inch limit.

I thought rulie was suggesting that over 6" was a hindrance.

 

[rulie]

I thought rulie was suggesting that over 6" was a hindrance.

Au contraire. Imo, only allowing the "6 inch rule" for handicap qualifying rounds is a hindrance to more general play scores being entered. Where I play (North America) one club-length is the de facto standard.

 

[rulefan]

Au contraire. Imo, only allowing the "6 inch rule" for handicap qualifying rounds is a hindrance to more general play scores being entered. Where I play (North America) one club-length is the de facto standard.

OK but see #8 for GB&I

 

[rosecott]

Au contraire. Imo, only allowing the "6 inch rule" for handicap qualifying rounds is a hindrance to more general play scores being entered. Where I play (North America) one club-length is the de facto standard.

You've lost me there. Why would allowing a club length instead of 6 inches have any effect on the potential for entering General Play rounds?

 

[Swango1980]

Understood, as a handicapping rule, and, imo, a hindrance to players being able to enter more scores for handicapping purposes.

It is not really a hindrance. All the club has to do is specify 6" relief when preferred lies are in place, and then there is no barrier (in terms of one club length relief) whatsoever. 6" relief just becomes the condition 100% of the time when preferred lies being used.

Years ago, our club did allow 1 club length relief, as allowed under the Rules of Golf. As soon as the Committee realised this would rule out handicap qualifying rounds, they changed this. No issues since. In addition, despite our course being subject to pretty poor drainage conditions, 6" has always been plenty in terms of relief, so it didn't cause an issue to the golfers.

Sure, maybe some clubs in UK may allow 1 club length relief. If that is the case, I suspect their Committee are either unaware of the CONGU requirement of 6", or they are aware of it but for whatever reason think 6" is inappropriate, and are happy to effectively rule out rounds for handicap. That is their decision of course, but they could easily be challenged and would probably want to have a very good case for why they are going down that road. Especially now it has been heavily advertised that accepting scores all year round is by far the desirable option.

 

[Colin L]

I don't see how it can be a hindrance either, but perhaps Rulie has a different perspective. If in his country a club-length is the norm, a move to 6" could be perceived as restrictive and a change for the worse. Here 6" has been the norm for a long time and I doubt if many people will even know that the rules of golf allow anything other than that. No issues at his club, Swango tells us, and like him I've never heard anyone complain that they couldn't find a decent enough spot on which to place. I suspect that would be the situation throughout CONGU countries.

 

[Peet]

Agree with "yes to both". They are different situations - you've finished with the PA or unplayable relief and now your ball is in a position where LCP applies.
Same would happen if you were taking free relief from an abnormal course condition (GUR, IO, temporary water) and dropped within the relief area. If the ball now lies where the LCP applies, you're entitled to use LCP.

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with your views but are there perhaps a specific rule or official interpretation that inform your views on the matter? Some of my playing partners disagree

 

[Swango1980]

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with your views but are there perhaps a specific rule or official interpretation that inform your views on the matter? Some of my playing partners disagree

As rulie says, they are different procedures. There is no requirement to confirm preferred lies can be taken AFTER taking an unplayable drop (i.e. how your ball ended up there is irrelevant, the fact is that it is in an area where preferred lies are permitted). Therefore, I very much doubt there will be an interpretation to this exact scenario, although happy if anyone else surprisingly finds something. If your playing partners disagree, I'd ask them to point to the rule that indicates that to be the case.

If you took a drop for an unplayable lie, your ball may well end up at rest in a bad lie. It may bounce and pick up mud. The whole point of using preferred lies is so you can address these issues. Model Local Rule E-3 gives an example how the local rule can be worded, and it simply clarifies that relief can be taken once. However, that is of course to confirm a player cannot take a preferred lie multiple times.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with your views but are there perhaps a specific rule or official interpretation that inform your views on the matter? Some of my playing partners disagree

Interpretation 16.1/2

 

[salfordlad]

The USGA Short Course recently touched on this "can I take preferred lies after taking a drop?" question indicating yes, even if the player took preferred lies first prior to then taking a drop. However, if a player took preferred lies then a Rule 9 issue (natural forces/player/opponent/outside influence) caused the ball to move, no further preferred lies can be taken. For the truly dedicated, this answer emerged in the recap webinar for round 2 of the 2021 Short Course (question 8) which is accessible on the USGA website.

 

[salfordlad]

Interpretation 16.1/2

Preferred lies is not an abnormal course condition.