Students Grants Done Away With

[ScienceBoy]

I don't see my student load repayments as a terrible thing, I borrowed some money to go to university. Its not like a real loan and its all taken care of in PAYE.

Yes we do think about our spending most months, I cant afford new irons and a new golf club only or two only follows a windfall. We are not well off by any means but the wonderful jobs I have had are largely down to having a degree, its worth it even though we budget our food, do all we can to save on bills (navy showers etc) and rarely splurge on expenses. Having cheap second hand cars, not smoking and not drinking (much) is our only saving grace to allow other little luxuries (like golf).

 

[delc]

I don't see my student load repayments as a terrible thing, I borrowed some money to go to university. Its not like a real loan and its all taken care of in PAYE.

Yes we do think about our spending most months, I cant afford new irons and a new golf club only or two only follows a windfall. We are not well off by any means but the wonderful jobs I have had are largely down to having a degree, its worth it even though we budget our food, do all we can to save on bills (navy showers etc) and rarely splurge on expenses. Having cheap second hand cars, not smoking and not drinking (much) is our only saving grace to allow other little luxuries (like golf).

What happens if you work in another country where there is no HMRC PAYE system? Can you avoid repaying the loan that way?

 

[delc]

They don't have to. Read my post earlier on.

Your daughter must be quite exceptional. I did my basic scientific qualifications by day release from work and 3 nights a week at night school. I found that pretty exhausting with all the homework involved, so when I was subsequently offered a place at a University, I left my reasonably well paid job to study full time, just taking holiday jobs (Xmas postman etc) to fund my life style. I did get a small Local Educational Authority grant and my university tuition fees paid for by the Government. Without these I probably wouldn't have gone to Uni, particularly as I had to give up a paid job to go there.

P.S. I had a bank overdraft of only £15 when I graduated and almost immediately got a reasonably well paid job. How things have changed!

 

[jp5]

What happens if you work in another country where there is no HMRC PAYE system? Can you avoid repaying the loan that way?

Still responsible for repayment if overseas.

 

[jp5]

I don't see my student load repayments as a terrible thing, I borrowed some money to go to university. Its not like a real loan and its all taken care of in PAYE.

Yes we do think about our spending most months, I cant afford new irons and a new golf club only or two only follows a windfall. We are not well off by any means but the wonderful jobs I have had are largely down to having a degree, its worth it even though we budget our food, do all we can to save on bills (navy showers etc) and rarely splurge on expenses. Having cheap second hand cars, not smoking and not drinking (much) is our only saving grace to allow other little luxuries (like golf).

Very good post. Though it would have been good for our politicians to grant students the same free university tuition they benefited from, with the sheer number and profligacy of students going to university nowadays it's just not feasible.

Having to repay the fees is no deterrent to going to university as many make it out to be. It's a considered bet on the future of your career - do well and you'll pay a percentage of your income back to cover the education you benefited from. If you don't reach that level then there is nothing to pay.

 

[Ethan]

Very good post. Though it would have been good for our politicians to grant students the same free university tuition they benefited from, with the sheer number and profligacy of students going to university nowadays it's just not feasible.

Having to repay the fees is no deterrent to going to university as many make it out to be. It's a considered bet on the future of your career - do well and you'll pay a percentage of your income back to cover the education you benefited from. If you don't reach that level then there is nothing to pay.

Easy for you to say that, perhaps, but some people used to living within their modest means are not comfortable taking out large loans which are gambles against future prospects. I was exactly one such kid once upon a time.

Anyway, the model doesn't work. The Student Loans system is barely economically viable and does not save HMG money compared to the old system of grants. It exists to support an ideological position.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10982037/Student-loans-under-threat-say-MPs.html

This same ideologies said that 50% of school kids should be able to go to Uni. This is an absurd objective, but in order to achieve this, there has been a massive proliferation of rubbish courses in dodgy institutions which give their graduates little advantage or prospects in life, and devalue courses elsewhere and in other disciplines.

Education is an investment in society. The country needs doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists, accountants, whatever, and these people pay extra taxes and provide services to the economy. We could probably live with fewer bankers, though. Many of these courses on media studies and marketing are simply a waste of time.

 

[delc]

Very good post. Though it would have been good for our politicians to grant students the same free university tuition they benefited from, with the sheer number and profligacy of students going to university nowadays it's just not feasible.

Having to repay the fees is no deterrent to going to university as many make it out to be. It's a considered bet on the future of your career - do well and you'll pay a percentage of your income back to cover the education you benefited from. If you don't reach that level then there is nothing to pay.

So either way you end up hard up! :mmm:

 

[SocketRocket]

So either way you end up hard up! :mmm:

You dont have to be and many are not. It's easy to knock the system but what alternative can you offer?

 

[SocketRocket]

Easy for you to say that, perhaps, but some people used to living within their modest means are not comfortable taking out large loans which are gambles against future prospects. I was exactly one such kid once upon a time.

Anyway, the model doesn't work. The Student Loans system is barely economically viable and does not save HMG money compared to the old system of grants. It exists to support an ideological position.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10982037/Student-loans-under-threat-say-MPs.html

This same ideologies said that 50% of school kids should be able to go to Uni. This is an absurd objective, but in order to achieve this, there has been a massive proliferation of rubbish courses in dodgy institutions which give their graduates little advantage or prospects in life, and devalue courses elsewhere and in other disciplines.

Education is an investment in society. The country needs doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists, accountants, whatever, and these people pay extra taxes and provide services to the economy. We could probably live with fewer bankers, though. Many of these courses on media studies and marketing are simply a waste of time.

Good post!

 

[delc]

Still responsible for repayment if overseas.

But apparently the Student Loans Company is not doing a particularly good job in collecting money from former students working abroad. See Daily Telegraph article quoted elsewhere in this thread.

 

[delc]

You dont have to be and many are not. It's easy to knock the system but what alternative can you offer?

How about only the top 10% of school leavers going on to University and maintenance grants and paid for tuition fees reinstated? More vocational training for everybody else.

 

[jp5]

Easy for you to say that, perhaps, but some people used to living within their modest means are not comfortable taking out large loans which are gambles against future prospects. I was exactly one such kid once upon a time.

It's not much of a gamble though, is it? In fact it's as far from a gamble as can be. You do well - you pay it back. You don't do well - you don't pay it back.

At no point are you asked to pay back more than you earn. No where close in fact. So not sure how that would constitute living outside modest means?

 

[jp5]

So either way you end up hard up! :mmm:

How do you work that out?

Case 1: you earn over the payment threshold. You pay back somewhere between 0.01% and ~7.5% of your salary. On the national average income you pay ~2% of your salary.
Case 2: you earn under the payment threshold. You pay back nothing.

So in case 1 you'll be a few percent 'worse off' each year. But to suggest you would be worse off would indicate you would have got that job without the degree. In many cases, you wouldn't.
In case 2 you can't be worse off by paying nothing. And you have a degree to your name which may help your future prospects.

I do agree that there are too many nonsense courses that the taxpayer shouldn't be subsidising. An artefact of the Blair years.

But overall I don't see too much issue in asking those that benefit from their non-mandatory education to pay for it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I always believed that successive Govenment's handling of students from the 1980's was a way of massaging the unemployment figures.

What do we do with former students like ex SLAB leader Jim Murphy who had 9 [yes nine] years at university and left without a degree.

In the 1980's my neighbours daughter spent 7 years at university reaching the age of 26 before she did a days work.
I had worked non stop for eleven years when I was 26.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I always believed that successive Govenment's handling of students from the 1980's was a way of massaging the unemployment figures.

What do we do with former students like ex SLAB leader Jim Murphy who had 9 [yes nine] years at university and left without a degree.

In the 1980's my neighbours daughter spent 7 years at university reaching the age of 26 before she did a days work.
I had worked non stop for eleven years when I was 26.

We both people to do the kind of job you can leave school at 15 to do, plus people to do jobs that need several years at university doing cutting edge research to do. As without either the country would be screwed.

 

[SocketRocket]

How about only the top 10% of school leavers going on to University and maintenance grants and paid for tuition fees reinstated? More vocational training for everybody else.

I would be comfortable to support fees for Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, Scientists etc.

 

[Hacker Khan]

How about only the top 10% of school leavers going on to University and maintenance grants and paid for tuition fees reinstated? More vocational training for everybody else.

Because companies need an educated workforce. And if UK plc can only offer 10% of the workforce being university educated then we will have no chance. We have to compete globally and plenty of countries are investing in education and ensuring as many of their young people can compete for the best jobs.

 

[SocketRocket]

Because companies need an educated workforce. And if UK plc can only offer 10% of the workforce being university educated then we will have no chance. We have to compete globally and plenty of countries are investing in education and ensuring as many of their young people can compete for the best jobs.

Most companies dont need a lot of graduates, they need a lot of people with practical skills that could be obtained at college. just like they used to before Blair/Brown decided otherwise.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Not so sure about educated, one or two of the graduates I have worked with have been pretty dim.

 

[cleanstrike]

Not so sure about educated, one or two of the graduates I have worked with have been pretty dim.

The sort of people that can easily calculate the cubic capacity of a jam jar but are easily confused when it comes to getting the lid off. :rofl: