Students Grants Done Away With

[c1973]

Never ceases to amaze me that the generation/s (from all political parties) who benefited so much from free further education insist that others must pay for theirs, whether it is through loans or grants etc.

Mind you, I'm not entirely sure if I believe it should be free, so.........

😃

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Never ceases to amaze me that the generation/s (from all political parties) who benefited so much from free further education insist that others must pay for theirs, whether it is through loans or grants etc.

Mind you, I'm not entirely sure if I believe it should be free, so.........

😃

I'd rather they didn't. But I don't see a way back for the English system unless there us a complete change in perception over any benefit of going to uni.

 

[SocketRocket]

Never ceases to amaze me that the generation/s (from all political parties) who benefited so much from free further education insist that others must pay for theirs, whether it is through loans or grants etc.

Mind you, I'm not entirely sure if I believe it should be free, so.........

😃

The difference was for me that no one from the school I attended went to University, I cant remember anyone I grew up with going either, the numbers who attained grants were very small then.

When it was decided to create so many new universities from previous polytechnic colleges and encourage around 50% of school leavers to go to Uni then this created a problem on how this could be funded, it was obvious that the tax payer could not fund this expansion.

I think most people would be prepared to fund the costs of people like Doctors, Nurses, Engineers and Scientists but not those studying subjects like the History of Art and Oriental Yoghurt Knitting

 

[Foliage Finder]

I agree partially with these changes. As a student now it's nice that I have the grants and believe me, they are necessary to get by when you don't have parents who can keep you comfortable whilst living away. So it's good to know that the money will still be available to those who need it.

As for it being part of the loan as opposed to a giveaway, that's fair. You go to university to get a degree to improve your chances of entering a successful career to earn a healthier salary than if you didn't. A healthier salary that will allow you to pay off a larger loan. My bursary is/was typically around 15-20% of my total loan amount, so it's not as if were talking astronomical hikes. Just as an aside, I'm looking at leaving uni with about 45k worth, and I'm still on the old £3500ish fees.

The other issue that does hand-in-hand here is the availability of relevant, degree specific graduate jobs. As the economy continues to grow, more jobs like these should be in the pipeline. Although, I'm fairly certain there is somewhat of a buildup of highly qualified people who have been unable to get those jobs as they have been so sparse over the past few years, so time will tell if this side of the deal works out.

Overall, this may put people off going to university to study air guitar and doss about for three years. That needs to stop.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The difference was for me that no one from the school I attended went to University, I cant remember anyone I grew up with going either, the numbers who attained grants were very small then.

When it was decided to create so many new universities from previous polytechnic colleges and encourage around 50% of school leavers to go to Uni then this created a problem on how this could be funded, it was obvious that the tax payer could not fund this expansion.

I think most people would be prepared to fund the costs of people like Doctors, Nurses, Engineers and Scientists but not those studying subjects like the History of Art and Oriental Yoghurt Knitting

My yoghurt knitting degree had actually come in very useful. But I did not take the oriental module as I just stuck to the traditional European syllabus.

 

[SocketRocket]

My yoghurt knitting degree had actually come in very useful. But I did not take the oriental module as I just stuck to the traditional European syllabus.

Did you not take a Masters in 'Greek Organic' I am lead to believe it's thixotropic characteristics are exceptional in knit one pearl one.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Did you not take a Masters in 'Greek Organic' I am lead to believe it's thixotropic characteristics are exceptional in knit one pearl one.

Trouble with that is that they 'cast off' in the wrong places..

BTW £45k debt for three years study is crazy.
There are areas in Scotland where you could buy a decent two bedroom house for that.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Trouble with that is that they 'cast off' in the wrong places..

BTW £45k debt for three years study is crazy.
There are areas in Scotland where you could buy a decent two bedroom house for that.

But why is it crazy? Genuine question. If it nets you an extra £100k over your life, is that crazy? Or is it a good investment...

If it doesn't net you much, why are you doing it?

 

[Del_Boy]

The state gives you an education until you are 18 ie an adult why should it look after you after that?

 

[SocketRocket]

BTW £45k debt for three years study is crazy.
There are areas in Scotland where you could buy a decent two bedroom house for that.

But thats only a part of what it costs, if the Student doesn't pay it then who should? Are you suggesting people that haven't been to University should pay it for them? I think you need reminding Doon that the Government only has money it takes out of our wages.

 

[delc]

I agree partially with these changes. As a student now it's nice that I have the grants and believe me, they are necessary to get by when you don't have parents who can keep you comfortable whilst living away. So it's good to know that the money will still be available to those who need it.

As for it being part of the loan as opposed to a giveaway, that's fair. You go to university to get a degree to improve your chances of entering a successful career to earn a healthier salary than if you didn't. A healthier salary that will allow you to pay off a larger loan. My bursary is/was typically around 15-20% of my total loan amount, so it's not as if were talking astronomical hikes. Just as an aside, I'm looking at leaving uni with about 45k worth, and I'm still on the old £3500ish fees.

The other issue that does hand-in-hand here is the availability of relevant, degree specific graduate jobs. As the economy continues to grow, more jobs like these should be in the pipeline. Although, I'm fairly certain there is somewhat of a buildup of highly qualified people who have been unable to get those jobs as they have been so sparse over the past few years, so time will tell if this side of the deal works out.

Overall, this may put people off going to university to study air guitar and doss about for three years. That needs to stop.

Unfortunately the glut of recent graduates has devalued the worth of being a graduate, so there is no guarantee that you will earn very much more than anybody who hasn't been to Uni, but saddled with a huge debt. Junk food restaurants are often completely staffed with recent graduates on the minimum wage!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

But why is it crazy? Genuine question. If it nets you an extra £100k over your life, is that crazy? Or is it a good investment...

If it doesn't net you much, why are you doing it?

It would take a lifetime for many to pay back the loan and there is no guarantee that they will get a well paid job.
Four students of my daughters generation are currently a London barrister, a Tesco manager, a penniless author, and my daughter owns her own start up company.
I would imagine that one out of four seem happy to pay back their loan.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

But thats only a part of what it costs, if the Student doesn't pay it then who should? Are you suggesting people that haven't been to University should pay it for them? I think you need reminding Doon that the Government only has money it takes out of our wages.

I am quite happy to help fund the education of the future generation, after all their taxes will be helping to pay for my pension.
Seems fair to me.

 

[Hacker Khan]

But thats only a part of what it costs, if the Student doesn't pay it then who should? Are you suggesting people that haven't been to University should pay it for them? I think you need reminding Doon that the Government only has money it takes out of our wages.

But there is always an element of people paying for services they do not use or want when you pay taxes, but that's the price you pay for living in a society where the government distributes taxes as they see fit. Using your argument I could ask due to the fact I've never used hospitals, why should I pay for someone else to have a replacement hip operation as that does not benefit me in any way?

Having an educated workforce is an investment in UK PLC as as any UKIP party member knows, there are plenty of highly educated foreigners who will be more than happy to come to the UK and take up those jobs if native British workers can not do them, not due to laziness as is sometimes the case, but due to the fact they are not educated enough. I personally do not object to students paying back some of the fees over time when (if) they can afford them. But I also think the nation should be investing in the education of our future workforce.

 

[SocketRocket]

But there is always an element of people paying for services they do not use or want when you pay taxes, but that's the price you pay for living in a society where the government distributes taxes as they see fit. Using your argument I could ask due to the fact I've never used hospitals, why should I pay for someone else to have a replacement hip operation as that does not benefit me in any way?

Having an educated workforce is an investment in UK PLC as as any UKIP party member knows, there are plenty of highly educated foreigners who will be more than happy to come to the UK and take up those jobs if native British workers can not do them, not due to laziness as is sometimes the case, but due to the fact they are not educated enough. I personally do not object to students paying back some of the fees over time when (if) they can afford them. But I also think the nation should be investing in the education of our future workforce.

The Nation invests a great deal in the education of the future work force, I think we all know that. As previously stated, the problem is the volume of people, when a target was set whereby 50% of school leavers to go to Uni then it became unaffordable unless students paid more, which iMO is quite fair and they only pay a part of the costs anyway.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The Nation invests a great deal in the education of the future work force, I think we all know that. As previously stated, the problem is the volume of people, when a target was set whereby 50% of school leavers to go to Uni then it became unaffordable unless students paid more, which iMO is quite fair and they only pay a part of the costs anyway.

You could argue that anything is affordable (within reason) depending on where you wish to invest. For example more of your taxes go on defense that does on education http://wheredoesmymoneygo.org/dailybread.html It's just where the government depends to prioritise spending. The hippy in me says that if globally we invested all the money we spend on defense on education instead the world would be a much better place. But unfortunately certain parts of humanity are too far down the path of hatred and intolerance to do that now.

 

[delc]

I note that some young lady students are advertising for rich "sugar daddy" lovers to help fund their educations. Sounds like a form of prostitution to me. Just wish I had more money! Seriously though, young people should not have to make decisions like this!

 

[Ethan]

I think this is a continuation of a horribly regressive policy. I did medicine at Uni, but I wouldn't have gone at all had there been these loans and fees at the time. The problem is clear when the response to that assertion is that you don't have to pay it back unless you earn a decent wage and many don't. Precisely. Many of the courses now available are a waste of time and money and serve only to support Unis and to further this absurd random objective that more people should go to Uni.

I have paid back my student grant and the cost of my education at Uni many times over through taxation, not to mention working as a junior hospital doctor doing 100 hours a week, of which 60 or so were paid at 60% below standard hourly rate. I remember working New Years Eve, sitting in A&E just before midnight waiting on a porter to bring a patient to the ward. Porter arrived and bemoaned missing New Year celebrations. Still, he said, at least we are getting triple time. Not me, I said, and explained our pay structure. Bloody Hell, doc, he said, I thought you lot were supposed to be smart.

There should be adequate data now from the student loans programme about the payback rates from different courses. They could use that data to identify those which did not pay back very well, and scrap them.

 

[chellie]

I note that some young lady students are advertising for rich "sugar daddy" lovers to help fund their educations. Sounds like a form of prostitution to me. Just wish I had more money! Seriously though, young people should not have to make decisions like this!

They don't have to. Read my post earlier on.

 

[delc]

They don't have to. Read my post earlier on.

I think that student loans are just a tax on being intelligent and aspirational, or for having clever kids. The big joke is that many student loans will never get paid back due to the glut of graduates forcing down market rates. It seems that many graduates are prepared to work for almost nothing just to get work experience. Even if they do get on, the repayments will kick in at about the stage in life when they might be thinking of getting married and buying a house, so less chance of them having children and passing on their superior genes to the next generation. Survival of the thickest on benefits, who seem to have lots of kids!