Students Grants Done Away With

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Whilst I have concerns that students from poorer families will come out of uni with a loan to be repaid of almost £52000 - and this may well put many off from going to uni - that concern has a little silver lining. Because I know of a fair few well off families playing and cheating the system to get maintenance grants - whilst still somehow managing to live in very expensive houses; send their children to private school; have holidays way beyond our means; and all of course can support the children driving nice new(ish) cars.

In the main the beneficiaries of such government largess are children of parents who have separated. Based upon declared household income the child qualifies for a grant. But of course behind the scenes the absent wealthy father is ploughing a load of cash into the child - sometimes directly - sometimes through the mother. But is is not recorded as household income and so a grant is forthcoming. These are not the children of the poor - they are the children of the greedy. And they are stealing money from us.

 

[virtuocity]

This part of the budget has sent a clear message to poorer families: know thine place.

Education is not for you, but don't even think about going on the dole once you finish school- you won't be paid and you won't be housed. This message will be absorbed by every 16 year old without able familial financiers and they will realise that further education is just another thing that society has deemed for those who don't face financial hardship.

So, they are forced to take jobs in sectors with very little opportunity for social mobility, unprotected by National Living Wage. The cycle continues.

For me, any policy which disempowers young people from making decisions about their future education is deeply worrying. However, others will be suckered in by the spin that 'it's about stopping people from stealing our money'.

Know thine place poor people.

 

[jp5]

In the main the beneficiaries of such government largess are children of parents who have separated. ... behind the scenes the absent wealthy father is ploughing a load of cash into the child

Sounds like you know a few people playing the system, but there is no silver lining for the many students from poorer families that this grant used to help.

In the end, the taxpayers are going to have an almighty bill to pick up when half of students won't have paid off their loans in 30 years.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

This part of the budget has sent a clear message to poorer families: know thine place.

Education is not for you, but don't even think about going on the dole once you finish school- you won't be paid and you won't be housed. This message will be absorbed by every 16 year old without able familial financiers and they will realise that further education is just another thing that society has deemed for those who don't face financial hardship.

So, they are forced to take jobs in sectors with very little opportunity for social mobility, unprotected by National Living Wage. The cycle continues.

For me, any policy which disempowers young people from making decisions about their future education is deeply worrying. However, others will be suckered in by the spin that 'it's about stopping people from stealing our money'.

Know thine place poor people.

Remind me why this means those from a "poorer" background can't go to uni? The notional £50k to be paid back after comes only after they are earning?

 

[TheDiablo]

IMO opinion they should eradicate student loans and replace them with a graduate tax. Something like 2.5% for those earning under £25k OR working in the public sector and 5% for those earning above £25k in the private sector. I've not crunched any numbers so that's pretty much plucked from thin air but seems sensible to me.

The size of the loan is now becoming irrelevant - a huge number of people will never pay that off. HID is a primary teacher who graduated with approx 23k of debt. If our plans to start a family in a couple of years and her go part time are fortunate to come to fruition then she will only have paid ~8k of that back and will be under the threshold for further repayment until it is wiped clean in 20 years.

Meanwhile, I'll have cleared my £18k in 5 years by the time I am 32. Doesn't quite seem to fit.

In response to the OP - I know of people whose parents had retired early and this allowed them to claim full grants! They had retired by 55 because they were loaded!!

 

[ger147]

Loans aren't a necessity either to go to university, in Scotland at least where the students aren't liable for the payment of the fees. I did 4 years at University and worked the entire time to support myself. I stayed at home with my parents and left Uni 4 years later with no debt.

Grants should have stayed for people from poorer families.

 

[jp5]

Loans aren't a necessity either to go to university, in Scotland at least where the students aren't liable for the payment of the fees. I did 4 years at University and worked the entire time to support myself. I stayed at home with my parents and left Uni 4 years later with no debt.

Well, only if you're Scottish or from the continent.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Loans aren't a necessity either to go to university, in Scotland at least where the students aren't liable for the payment of the fees. I did 4 years at University and worked the entire time to support myself. I stayed at home with my parents and left Uni 4 years later with no debt.

That's exactly how I did it. I stayed at home with my parents; got a bit of a grant but I gave some of that to my parents to contribute towards my keep; worked all holidays - and just like you left with no debt whatsoever.

And I do have concerns about the poorer running up a loan of £52k - but really that shouldn't stop them going - they will have a degree at the end, the opportunities and earning capacity the same as anyone else with a degree. The loan should be considered a tax and taken at source so you never see the money going.

But it has sickened me rather these last few years seeing so many truly undeserving getting grants - whilst many struggle.

 

[jp5]

IMO opinion they should eradicate student loans and replace them with a graduate tax. Something like 2.5% for those earning under £25k OR working in the public sector and 5% for those earning above £25k in the private sector. I've not crunched any numbers so that's pretty much plucked from thin air but seems sensible to me.

The size of the loan is now becoming irrelevant - a huge number of people will never pay that off. HID is a primary teacher who graduated with approx 23k of debt. If our plans to start a family in a couple of years and her go part time are fortunate to come to fruition then she will only have paid ~8k of that back and will be under the threshold for further repayment until it is wiped clean in 20 years.

Meanwhile, I'll have cleared my £18k in 5 years by the time I am 32. Doesn't quite seem to fit.

In response to the OP - I know of people whose parents had retired early and this allowed them to claim full grants! They had retired by 55 because they were loaded!!

For many graduates the student loan is for all intents a graduate tax as they'll never pay off their loan in full. I think you need to earn northwards of £26k just to break even with repayment vs interest fees, which is about the national average.

Would you really be happy paying a graduate tax though? A cursory run of your numbers would suggest you'd pay a few thousand a year - every year! Sounds an awful lot.

 

[chellie]

Our eldest daughter (aged 24) had her PGCE graduation ceremony yesterday. She has minimum debt due to the fact that she worked full time and did her Business Degree in the evenings at Uni. She also saved some money so she could do her PGCE without getting into too much debt. Think she may have had a small grant of £500.

 

[TheDiablo]

For many graduates the student loan is for all intents a graduate tax as they'll never pay off their loan in full. I think you need to earn northwards of £26k just to break even with repayment vs interest fees, which is about the national average.

Would you really be happy paying a graduate tax though? A cursory run of your numbers would suggest you'd pay a few thousand a year - every year! Sounds an awful lot.

Is anyone really happy paying any tax?! It would seem more fair to me though - say someone was earning 75k, i'd be paying 2.5% up to 25k (£625) + 5% of £50k (£2500) so just over £3k a year. For £40k it would be £1375 a year. Seems pretty reasonable to me for the benefits a good degree can bring. It would also attract some high calibre graduates to the public sector if the right level of incentive/tax break was offered.

I'm no analyst so this is really only a high level idea, but seems better than the current system.

 

[Foxholer]

That's exactly how I did it. I stayed at home with my parents; got a bit of a grant but I gave some of that to my parents to contribute towards my keep; worked all holidays - and just like you left with no debt whatsoever.

Er....How much did you pay towards the University course fees?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Er....How much did you pay towards the University course fees?

Nothing

 

[Old Skier]

Whilst I have concerns that students from poorer families will come out of uni with a loan to be repaid of almost £52000 - and this may well put many off from going to uni - that concern has a little silver lining. Because I know of a fair few well off families playing and cheating the system to get maintenance grants - whilst still somehow managing to live in very expensive houses; send their children to private school; have holidays way beyond our means; and all of course can support the children driving nice new(ish) cars.

In the main the beneficiaries of such government largess are children of parents who have separated. Based upon declared household income the child qualifies for a grant. But of course behind the scenes the absent wealthy father is ploughing a load of cash into the child - sometimes directly - sometimes through the mother. But is is not recorded as household income and so a grant is forthcoming. These are not the children of the poor - they are the children of the greedy. And they are stealing money from us.

If you know people who are commiting fraud then man up and report it or is this another thinly veiled attacks on a government you didn't vote for.

 

[Foxholer]

Er....How much did you pay towards the University course fees?

Nothing

Exactly! And that's the difference between the 2 generations!

I'm all for reverting back to University education being free, as it is for Scots in Scotland - or at least greatly reduced! It's an investment in the future, not a purchase!

The entire Uni/Youth (un)employment has been a farcical political football for years! I actually blame Blair's government for starting it by encouraging further education as a means to keep 18yos off the Unemployment figures, then charging them for the privilege too! There was no reduction in the 'rates' that previously funded the cost, so that was simply another 'stealth tax'!

 

[Hacker Khan]

The prime reason for the recent financial crash was being people encouraged to take on more and more debt. Which eventually everyone worked out that they could never repay. So I can't help thinking that ensuring everyone that goes into further education starts life with a sizeable debt isn't the brightest thing to do if we want to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The prime reason for the recent financial crash was being people encouraged to take on more and more debt. Which eventually everyone worked out that they could never repay. So I can't help thinking that ensuring everyone that goes into further education starts life with a sizeable debt isn't the brightest thing to do if we want to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

Away with you and your sensible posts!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Re OP.

We paid for my eldest daughter to go to Uni. No grants were available.
One of my friends was loaded and divorced, his wife was able to claim a full grant for their son.
He thought it quite funny,I didn't.

Silly journo on QT last night wingeing because she had to pay for her daughter to go to a Scots Uni.
I don't suppose for one moment it entered her pretty little head that Scots students have to pay to go to English Uni's

As Tommy Shepherd said.....Different countries, different priorities.

 

[CliveW]

Students can no longer get holiday or evening/weekend jobs, because they are all taken by graduates who can't get proper jobs!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Re OP.

We paid for my eldest daughter to go to Uni. No grants were available.
One of my friends was loaded and divorced, his wife was able to claim a full grant for their son.
He thought it quite funny,I didn't.

Silly journo on QT last night wingeing because she had to pay for her daughter to go to a Scots Uni.
I don't suppose for one moment it entered her pretty little head that Scots students have to pay to go to English Uni's

As Tommy Shepherd said.....Different countries, different priorities.

BiB - that's what sticks in my throat. Though with the ones we know the loaded dads are pumping piles of dosh the way of their kids - they don't actually need the grant at all. And they think it's great How stupid of me and my Mrs to stick together.
.