'Stack and Til......... Woods'

[19th]

Luckily the people you teach don't know anything about golf or the swing at all and are probably more than happy just to get the club to actually HIT the ball once in a while.

Gee, that's a GREAT attitude for a coach to have towards anybody trying to play the game. I'd sure LOVE to be taught by you.

Oh wait, no I wouldn't, you're too arrogant, that was it...

I'm afraid, reading the statement shown, I'm with this poster as it is really OTT and 'in your face' in attitude.

 

[thecraw]

James, you spout this all the time and always manage to come up with some weird and wonderful exaples of tour players who for whatever crazy reason you believe are using stack'n'tilt!

Justin Rose doesn't even have a movement like stack'n'tilt. Rose quite clearly moves his weight onto his right side "loads up" and transfers back through the ball.

I admire your steadfast approach to your choice and from what I hear it works well for you, however not one of these players you listed purely uses stack'n'tilt. I think you want too see things in tour players swings to justify your choice, just stick to facts. Mike Weir was the last professional player I know of who switched to stack'n'tilt and committed full out to it but even he's changed away from it as he says he lost his way and natural rythm.

I'm sure you'll know of other pros it works for and has worked for.

I don't want to be narrow minded and as I said in one of your many previous threads I did give it a try one day and proceded to shank about 7 out of 8 balls off the 8th tee!!! I may not have even been doing it right!

 

[Golfmmad]

The reason, golf Pro's I have spoken to about S&T don't like it is that they say it works ok for the irons but is a real problem with a driver.

Have you seen James drive a ball using the stack and tilt method?

I have, and I can describe it in one word:

Awesome!

Golfmmad.

 

[percy_layer]

I'm impressed that you try to justify your statement by naming professionals that are not true stack and tilt players. Didn't the two big names that went down the stack and tilt route change their minds and are now using a different method???????
In fact, is there a touring professional that is using S & T???? I cannot think of a single one......

That's true however it was more to do with the open-mindedness and the willingness to embrace the methodology than it was about stack and tilt.

Sean Foley isn't (well he wouldn't call himself) a stack and tilt coach however he is a student of the stack and tilt writers (Bennett/Plummer) and has taken the major parts of the swing into his teachings rather than just snubbing them like some 'pros' might.

i'm all for having an openmind, only way to improve on what we currently know

 

[chrisd]

The reason, golf Pro's I have spoken to about S&T don't like it is that they say it works ok for the irons but is a real problem with a driver.

Have you seen James drive a ball using the stack and tilt method?

I have, and I can describe it in one word:

Awesome!

Golfmmad.

I am not saying that it doesn't work for the gifted few but if it's a system that encompasses the 20 h/capper as well, then the average Pro probably wants a method that doesn't, in his view, give problems with hitting the driver>

 

[egerst]

Charlie Wi is the only one i know of using it he's had a good season so far

 

[JustOne]

James, you spout this all the time and always manage to come up with some weird and wonderful exaples of tour players who for whatever crazy reason you believe are using stack'n'tilt!

I just posted what I saw, Tiger Woods' swing and Sean Foley teaching Tiger Woods some S&T moves.

1) Bobmac always adds a little "Not something I would teach".
2) Subsequently I am always happy to reply with my own thoughts/opinions.
3) And you always throw your toys outta your pram about it.

Nothing new there... same time next week?

Have you seen James drive a ball using the stack and tilt method?

I have, and I can describe it in one word:

Awesome!

Very kind Chris... you clearly haven't seen me hit a ball recently!, ...small animals run for cover!

 

[thecraw]

I never mention Woods, I referred to Rose.

No toys, just like yourself, observations! Read the whole post!!!

 

[JustOne]

No toys, just like yourself, observations! Read the whole post!!!

Read the whole post? WTF are you talking about

I posted..

Fortunately people like Woods, Rose, O'Hair, Mahan and others are more open minded. Would they be talking to someone like Foley if they thought it was pish?

...on the basis that they are taking coaching from someone like Sean Foley and are prepared to listen to his advice.

At what point did I say that Justin Rose has a stack and tilt swing?

If you are anti stack and tilt feel free not to read any threads about it You tried it and did shite, that's good enough for me.

 

[richart]

The only 'sports' i know that deliberately keep the weight on the front leg throught the shots are darts and snooker ! All the sports i have played have a weight shift, to help increase power. Probably totally irrelevant but i want my say

Not that i want to take sides, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[USER1999]

The only 'sports' i know that deliberately keep the weight on the front leg throught the shots are darts and snooker ! All the sports i have played have a weight shift, to help increase power. Probably totally irrelevant but i want my say

Not that i want to take sides, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The trick is, those that are capable of transfering the weight do so without thinking about it. Fine. But many don't get it back. Herein lies the issue.

 

[richart]

You can transfer you weight by thinking about it, and with practice it can become natural. I have coached juniors to play tennis, and a lot naturally fall back as they hit their ground strokes but they can be taught to get their weight through the ball.

I don't believe the golf swing is a natural action,and like many sports relies heavily on coaching to reach the very top level.

 

[Leftie]

I don't believe the golf swing is a natural action

Got to agree with you there.

You are basically taught that your head should roughly stay in the same position whilst your feet remain in contact with the ground ... and your whole body rotates between these two "fixed" points with your arms swinging wildly around.

There must be an easier way

 

[CrapHacker]

God, this thread is getting boring.

There's been no blood drawn for hours, now.

When I started watching golf European golfers had wristy, arm swings with loads of moving, flailing parts. The Americans, meanwhile, were developing a game based around Nicklaus' technique.

Next step. Faldo took the American swing, and simplified it down to using the larger core muscles.

Tiger just ripped the rule book apart.

Golf is always evolving.

I don't think S&T in it's pure form will be the future of golf.

But a lot of elements of it are sneaking their way into the modern game. Foley could easily be the next Leadbetter. The next generation will be playing a game using elements of both.

S&T is dead.

Long live S&T.

 

[JustOne]

I don't think S&T in it's pure form will be the future of golf.

Neither do I, not in it's pure form. Foley has already interpreted the swing in his own way (eg: lost the abbreviated follow through) and doesn't seem to be coming in for much criticism at all.

 

[SharkAttack]

I don't think S&T in it's pure form will be the future of golf.

Neither do I, not in it's pure form. Foley has already interpreted the swing in his own way (eg: lost the abbreviated follow through) and doesn't seem to be coming in for much criticism at all.

Let's just agree that both methods are crap and that we should all be playing cack handed with a swing that has no wrist movement and doesn't move above the waist (Hey I may have something here, anyone want to pay me to teach my new method?).

Does it show I am getting fed up reading about the merits of S&T and all other swings for that matter. Guys all methods can be made to work if you practice it enough. You will be hard pushed to find any golfers with the SAME swing similar maybe but not the same.

Shark

 

[CrapHacker]

Does it show I am getting fed up reading about the merits of S&T and all other swings for that matter.

Shark

Ummmmm, well don't then

You don't have to read every thread.

But a lot of us eejits are looking for the holy grail - that one tip / movement / whatever, that makes the game just a teeny bit easier.

I for one am not a natural golfer, so any practice I do has to have some kind of structure behind it, or I just make my swing worse and worse.

A year ago I was swaying, and casting, and reverse pivoting, and probably a million and one other things as well.

By thinking about what I want to achieve, and how much time I can devot to achieving it, I've totally reset my goals, am closer to getting the swing I want, and am enjoying my golf a lot more.

I do this by discussing/arguing with guys that know more than I do.

So for threads like this, I'm in.

 

[SharkAttack]

Does it show I am getting fed up reading about the merits of S&T and all other swings for that matter.

Shark

Ummmmm, well don't then

You don't have to read every thread.

I don't!!!!!!

I agree totally with you. I would love nothing more than reading about the merits of both swings. It is just that this thread was turning into a bun fight. I would love someone who uses stack and tilt to explain it's main points to me, even though like Bob it's probably not for me. I would like to know more about it, you should always look at other methods of swinging the club. One of these other methods might make sense to you and change your game for the better.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You can't beat a good bun fight (and I should know!). I don't mind a bit of needle providing it doesn't get too personal. It's obvious S&T is almost as emotive as GPS devices and I think both sides put forward string cases. As one who is looking for that elusive "something" then I'm prepared to try anything that may finally get my game working

 

[JustOne]

But a lot of us eejits are looking for the holy grail - that one tip / movement / whatever, that makes the game just a teeny bit easier.

I see it in a similar way. I'm not going to be a tour player so I will take a look at ways to improve my own game, I don't care if Tour players are doing what I do or not, it makes no difference to me as the majority of tour players have a natural talent, they could hit the ball off one leg and do it well if they practiced enough, heck they could even play left handed better than most.

I'm not silver spoon so I can't afford a million lessons and my dad wasn't a golf pro, so i'm not going on the tour any time soon, at 41 I think I'm past it anyway (NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!).

From what I have seen and read there are fundamental errors in the way golf has been taught over the past (god knows how many) years, errors that lead to poor ball striking, inconsistency and ultimately less enjoyment for the game.

I'm interested in stack and tilt basically because it makes a lot of sense to me.. the maths adds up. I don't want to hit fat/thin shots stuck on the back foot any more, I want better ball striking and above all I want to enjoy my round of golf, I have found that it is easier to achieve these things now than with the old swing I had for 16+ years.

The fact that I like to discuss it is merely because I have done a heck of a lot of reading about it, it interests me and I feel like I (occasionally) see the benefits of it.

I would go as far to say that I believe stack and tilt is easier for the amateur golfer than the conventional swing... the fact that players on the tour even go near it must show that it has some credence even if they are not prepared to go the whole hog.