'Stack and Til......... Woods'

Very observent J.... :D :D
Tell me this......Whats the difference between stack and tilt and the normal swing?
 
Very observent J.... :D :D
Tell me this......Whats the difference between stack and tilt and the normal swing?
Click to expand...

If you want the full S&T from James you could be here a while. I'm sure he'll give you the edited version. Actually it is does work (at least for him and Murph) and is something I'll try over the winter if only in passing
 
One difference is on the trad swing you transfer some weight onto your right side on the backswing. On S and T, you keep almost all your weight on your left foot so no weight transfer.
Not something I would personally teach
 
One difference is on the trad swing you transfer some weight onto your right side on the backswing. On S and T, you keep almost all your weight on your left foot so no weight transfer.
Not something I would personally teach
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Can I ask why (cheekily?) Is it something you dont agree with. Just wondering how pro's reach the decision to teach what they do. (I know you can't answer for everyone).
 
I keep a lot of weight on my left side, inadvertently (sp)- my teaching pro keeps warning me against this 'reverse pivot'.

Is it very detrimental?
 
Reverse pivot is very different to keeping the weight from moving away from the ball. Reverse pivot is moving it back, and then not returning it. If you don't move it back, where's the reverse?

tiger isn't pure S&T, but then what is?

I like it. Looks solid.
 
One difference is on the trad swing you transfer some weight onto your right side on the backswing. On S and T, you keep almost all your weight on your left foot so no weight transfer.
Not something I would personally teach
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It would just overcomplicate things for me i think Bob......
If its not broke n all that! ;)

Just my thoughts but if the majority of the weight is left on the front foot i guess it would make for alot of digging and fat shots at the outset?
 
Can I ask why (cheekily?) Is it something you dont agree with. Just wondering how pro's reach the decision to teach what they do. (I know you can't answer for everyone).
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Purely personal preference.
There is no recognised qualification to teach it so how does anyone know the coach knows what he/she is talking about?
Also, the backswing in S&T is pretty much the same movement as a reverse pivot which I feel many golfers unless supervised would end up rocking back onto their back foot in the downswing. Not good.
If someone keeps their weight pretty much in both their feet on the backswing and swings through to a nice balanced finish, then I would be happy with that.
You see articles about S&T showing pictures of golfers swaying away and sliding their hips on the backswing and I agree that's wrong, but I do believe you can transfer the weight onto the back foot without swaying. It's called keeping your head still.
What happens is the spine angle in relation to the lower body doesnt change ie tilts left or right.
If the angle in your posture remains the same throughout the swing, the contact should be consistent. So I like that feature about S&T.
As some know, the S&T is about taking all the best bits from "The Greats" and putting them all together and as Arnold Palmer once said..."there's more than one way to play golf well"
My problem is this position, especially the shut clubface.

331px-StackandTilt2_462.jpg


Maybe it's just a bad example but I would never teach that position.
My concern with Tiger is I have heard many people talk about S&T being ok for irons but harder to use for driving. As has been well documented, it's Tigers driving that is causing him alot of his problems.
I wish him well with the changes and hopefully, he will have grooved it by November time.
So until someone comes out with a course on how to teach S&T properly, I'll carry on teaching my way which seems to work ok. :)
 
Can I ask why (cheekily?) Is it something you dont agree with. Just wondering how pro's reach the decision to teach what they do. (I know you can't answer for everyone).
Click to expand...

Purely personal preference.
There is no recognised qualification to teach it so how does anyone know the coach knows what he/she is talking about?
Also, the backswing in S&T is pretty much the same movement as a reverse pivot which I feel many golfers unless supervised would end up rocking back onto their back foot in the downswing. Not good.
If someone keeps their weight pretty much in both their feet on the backswing and swings through to a nice balanced finish, then I would be happy with that.
You see articles about S&T showing pictures of golfers swaying away and sliding their hips on the backswing and I agree that's wrong, but I do believe you can transfer the weight onto the back foot without swaying. It's called keeping your head still.
What happens is the spine angle in relation to the lower body doesnt change ie tilts left or right.
If the angle in your posture remains the same throughout the swing, the contact should be consistent. So I like that feature about S&T.
As some know, the S&T is about taking all the best bits from "The Greats" and putting them all together and as Arnold Palmer once said..."there's more than one way to play golf well"
My problem is this position, especially the shut clubface.

331px-StackandTilt2_462.jpg


Maybe it's just a bad example but I would never teach that position.
My concern with Tiger is I have heard many people talk about S&T being ok for irons but harder to use for driving. As has been well documented, it's Tigers driving that is causing him alot of his problems.
I wish him well with the changes and hopefully, he will have grooved it by November time.
So until someone comes out with a course on how to teach S&T properly, I'll carry on teaching my way which seems to work ok. :)
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Wow! That's a lot of cans of worms in just a few lines Bob!
..and very similar to the grumpy, narrow minded attitude I'd expect from my own pro :D

Fortunately people like Woods, Rose, O'Hair, Mahan and others are more open minded. Would they be talking to someone like Foley if they thought it was pish?

Luckily the people you teach don't know anything about golf or the swing at all and are probably more than happy just to get the club to actually HIT the ball once in a while. Using your methodology we can look forward to further generations of slicers and dissatisfied golfers but at least you'll make a living :D
 
Luckily the people you teach don't know anything about golf or the swing at all and are probably more than happy just to get the club to actually HIT the ball once in a while. Using your methodology we can look forward to further generations of slicers and dissatisfied golfers but at least you'll make a living :D
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I always worry when people sit on the fence!!


Chris
 
Fortunately people like Woods, Rose, O'Hair, Mahan and others are more open minded. Would they be talking to someone like Foley if they thought it was pish?

Luckily the people you teach don't know anything about golf or the swing at all and are probably more than happy just to get the club to actually HIT the ball once in a while. Using your methodology we can look forward to further generations of slicers and dissatisfied golfers but at least you'll make a living :D
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I'm impressed that you try to justify your statement by naming professionals that are not true stack and tilt players. Didn't the two big names that went down the stack and tilt route change their minds and are now using a different method???????
In fact, is there a touring professional that is using S & T???? I cannot think of a single one......
 
I know James and Bob have their own (entrenched) opinions on the methodology of S&T and have voiced them before. I think it's one of those "agree to disagree" scenarios before it descends into muckyness. Bob has obviously been teach a (very, very) long time and so has his own methods which get results. Having seen both Murph and James hit balls using S&T and having had James take the time to explain in some depth the thinking behind it I can see both arguments. For my money S&T has some very positive features certainly from my own unique swing point of view, but I would also prefer the reassurance of visiting a pro who could fix any problems.
 
I'm impressed that you try to justify your statement by naming professionals that are not true stack and tilt players. Didn't the two big names that went down the stack and tilt route change their minds and are now using a different method???????
In fact, is there a touring professional that is using S & T???? I cannot think of a single one......
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That's true however it was more to do with the open-mindedness and the willingness to embrace the methodology than it was about stack and tilt.

Sean Foley isn't (well he wouldn't call himself) a stack and tilt coach however he is a student of the stack and tilt writers (Bennett/Plummer) and has taken the major parts of the swing into his teachings rather than just snubbing them like some 'pros' might.

Here's Sean Foley demonstrating to Tiger Woods the tilt part of the swing, this shoulder tilt is UNHEARD OF in any other golf swing prior to stack and tilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZibvM6zgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPeq_sp9XyI

The conventional swing has the shoulders waaaaay flatter on the backswing (a common fault taught by pros of the old school swing which forces you to lift the club up on the backswing with your arms/hands and makes you very inconsistent and less powerful).
 
My understanding is that the advocates, like James, of S&T accept that no top pro uses the plan in it's entirety but a lot of Pro's do use elements of it. I personally try not to load the backswing with any (sway) backward move, concentrating on the middle of my left kneecap staying as still as possible through the backswing. I get a better strike that way, especially as I have slowed my swing a little. I certainly wouldn't want to be viewed as a user of S&T because of this, but happy to accept it has helped me in regard to that part of my swing as I read up on S&T before adopting that in my swing.

The reason, golf Pro's I have spoken to about S&T don't like it is that they say it works ok for the irons but is a real problem with a driver.
 
Luckily the people you teach don't know anything about golf or the swing at all and are probably more than happy just to get the club to actually HIT the ball once in a while.
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Gee, that's a GREAT attitude for a coach to have towards anybody trying to play the game. I'd sure LOVE to be taught by you.

Oh wait, no I wouldn't, you're too arrogant, that was it...
 
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