williespiers
New member
Can a club make you fill in your points on a card in a stable ford competition even when you have put your gross score in and entered it into a computer and if you don’t put the points down they disqualify you
Stable ford points
- Thread starter williespiers
- Start date
2blue
Journeyman Pro
No they can't. Only the gross score is required to be recorded.
chrisd
Major Champion
robinthehood
Hacker
No , you only need to put the gross score in. I'll put points in but it's the gross I'll go over with my fc as that's the important bit. Easy to write the wrong points down, so as long as gross is correct
williespiers
New member
my son won the competition but never put the points in and the club disqualified him on that grounds they have a picture up of how you should fill it in with the points on it but I was unsure if they could do this under a local rule or are they not allowed to do it
IanMcC
Well-known member
I may be wrong, but I think you have a case for appeal. Page 106 of the CONGU manual states:
Dec.1(m) Competition conditions that apply solely to the UHS
Q. The administration of handicapping has become increasingly the domain of the computer resulting
in Handicap Committees requiring competitors to provide assistance in various ways beyond that
required by the Rules of Golf. These include:
• total the score and apply the correct handicap;
• enter and total Stableford points on their card;
• on completion of the round enter scores hole by hole into a computer terminal;
• enter on the scorecard their computer reference number;
• indicate on the card scores to be adjusted by the application of Nett Double Bogey or the
Stableford formula;
Can the Committee in charge of the competition, or Handicap Committee, impose a penalty under
the Rules of Golf when a player fails to comply with a request of the nature listed above?
A. R&A Rules Limited has confirmed that ’provided a player fulfils the requirements of Rule 3/3(b) a
penalty cannot be imposed under the Rules of Golf for failure to comply with these conditions.
However, imposing a penalty of a disciplinary nature, such as suspension of handicap is not
considered to be contrary to the Rules of Golf.’ An alternative penalty would be to suspend the
player’s right to compete in club competitions for a specified period. (See Committee Procedures
5-A.5).
Similarly, Committee Procedures 5-A.5 is pretty clear also:
Requesting Players to Provide Other Information on Scorecards
The Committee may request that players assist the Committee by completing scorecard related tasks that are the Committee's responsibility. The Committee must not apply a penalty to a player under the Rules of Golf if he or she fails to comply with these requests or makes a mistake in doing so, but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction for a player who fails repeatedly to comply with such a request. For example, the Committee may ask players to:
Dec.1(m) Competition conditions that apply solely to the UHS
Q. The administration of handicapping has become increasingly the domain of the computer resulting
in Handicap Committees requiring competitors to provide assistance in various ways beyond that
required by the Rules of Golf. These include:
• total the score and apply the correct handicap;
• enter and total Stableford points on their card;
• on completion of the round enter scores hole by hole into a computer terminal;
• enter on the scorecard their computer reference number;
• indicate on the card scores to be adjusted by the application of Nett Double Bogey or the
Stableford formula;
Can the Committee in charge of the competition, or Handicap Committee, impose a penalty under
the Rules of Golf when a player fails to comply with a request of the nature listed above?
A. R&A Rules Limited has confirmed that ’provided a player fulfils the requirements of Rule 3/3(b) a
penalty cannot be imposed under the Rules of Golf for failure to comply with these conditions.
However, imposing a penalty of a disciplinary nature, such as suspension of handicap is not
considered to be contrary to the Rules of Golf.’ An alternative penalty would be to suspend the
player’s right to compete in club competitions for a specified period. (See Committee Procedures
5-A.5).
Similarly, Committee Procedures 5-A.5 is pretty clear also:
Requesting Players to Provide Other Information on Scorecards
The Committee may request that players assist the Committee by completing scorecard related tasks that are the Committee's responsibility. The Committee must not apply a penalty to a player under the Rules of Golf if he or she fails to comply with these requests or makes a mistake in doing so, but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction for a player who fails repeatedly to comply with such a request. For example, the Committee may ask players to:
- Total the scores or, in a Four-Ball competition, determine the score that counts for the side.
- Enter the points scored for each hole on the scorecard in Stableford.
- Enter whether the hole was won, lost or tied in Par/Bogey.
- Enter specific details on the scorecard such as name, date and name of the competition.
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Colin L
Tour Winner
Ian, you're not wrong.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
So while it seems clear there cannot be a penalty applied'under the rules of golf'. To what extend can a player be penalised by a committee for not entering points onto the card using a breach of; code of conduct/condition of competition if stipulated in advance by the committee?
Could a committee have disqualification as a penalty for a player within the conditions of competition? (if the conditions instructed players to include the points onto the card & the player did not comply)
Could a committee have disqualification as a penalty for a player within the conditions of competition? (if the conditions instructed players to include the points onto the card & the player did not comply)
Colin L
Tour Winner
And you cannot have a Term of Competition which contradicts the Rules of Golf. Well, you can, but would be wrong and in the end unenforceable.
rulefan
Tour Winner
DQ is a Rules of Golf penalty.
The Committee must not apply a penalty to a player under the Rules of Golf but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction
The Committee must not apply a penalty to a player under the Rules of Golf but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
...and any consequential disciplinary action imposed by the Committee could only reasonably be applied through the player repeatedly failing to comply.
but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction for a player who fails repeatedly to comply with such a request.
but the Committee may provide a disciplinary sanction for a player who fails repeatedly to comply with such a request.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Very strange that a Committee feel that they are correct in applying such a penalty. I'd suggest someone point them in the right direction, perhaps showing them IanMcC's post
rulefan
Tour Winner
Simply point them to their copy of the CONGU manual
LincolnShep
Head Pro
Is it the case that's there's nothing to stop a club having a condition of competition that requires points to be entered on the scorecard - but by doing so they render the competition ineligible for handicap purposes? I'm thinking of a parallel with a 3 Club or a Mulligan competition - they're not supported by the rules so they won't affect handicaps but there's nothing to stop a club running such a competition.
I realise that I've changed the original scenario posed by the OP - apologies for that, but I'm just trying to clarify it in my own mind.
I realise that I've changed the original scenario posed by the OP - apologies for that, but I'm just trying to clarify it in my own mind.
rulefan
Tour Winner
No.
It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.
Unions have a duty to ensure that Affiliated Clubs discharge their responsibilities in full. Sanctions may be taken against any party that does not observe either the spirit or intent of the system.
brfcfan
Newbie
Most of the points have been covered. I am the Handicap and Comp sec and it is annoying when people dont enter their score or they get the stableford points incorrect or in this case dont put them in at all, but yes the Comp Sec is way out of line here and I would definitely appeal the decision. I would also ask for a condition of competitions from the Committee as sometimes they can make certain transgressions ineligible for prizes, which may be the case here, but under no circumstances can they DQ him unless he had signed for a lower gross score
