Spike marks + water drop

[Dellboy]

Hi,
Just a quick question, yesterday while playing with a couple of chaps, who I have ever met, one of them told me, " I've been playing many a year and know 99 % of all the rules so if your not sure just ask"

So I did ask twice and I'm not sure he came back with the right answers, so over to you chaps.

1) On the green I was repairing a couple of pitch marks, none made by me, when I looked up to see the chap doing the same to pitch marks and spike marks, about 3 inches behind the hole but on his line if he were to over hit his putt, (which he did by 6-8 inches) I didn't think you could do this but he said as long as you did so before putting it was fine.

2) Par 3 over water, topped my tee shot and it travelled no more than 6 inches above the water, hitting the water 2-3 times, but just had enough speed/luck to roll up the bank green side, but 5-10 seconds later rolled back into the water.
The Water had red stakes so I went to where the ball rolled back in, as last place it crossed water and dropped out to the side. He told me I had to go back to the side of water where the ball first touched the surface.

Was I wrong both times ?

Cheers

Dellboy

 

[pbrown7582]

Red staked lateral hazard you were correct I using 2 clubs to the side not nearer the hole.

 

[atticusfinch]

1. He was right. The rule says the "line of putt" must not be touched. R16-1. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole. Definitions.

2. He was wrong. the point of reference for a water hazard relief is where the ball "last" crossed the margin. R26-1.

 

[Colin L]

1. He was right. The rule says the "line of putt" must not be touched. R16-1. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole. Definitions.

Dellboy was right on both counts. These must have fallen into the 1% of the Rules this guy didn't know.

The player was not touching the line of his putt but he was in breach of Rule 16-1c by repairing the green where it might subsequently assist his play. The area just behind the hole is clearly one where a repair could be of assistance since an approach putt is likely to go beyond the hole. Repairing pitch marks there was ok, but not the spike marks.

........Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole..........[16-1c]

 

[Colin L]

Hi,
....... topped my tee shot and it travelled no more than 6 inches above the water, hitting the water 2-3 times, but just had enough speed/luck to roll up the bank green side ......

..... as an off-stage orchestra played the Dambusters March?

 

[Dellboy]

Blimey, I got both right !! Well that's a first.

Will tell him next week if I see him.

..... as an off-stage orchestra played the Dambusters March?

I did start to whistle the tune to myself while watching my fantastic tee shot :fore:

 

[MashieNiblick]

I did start to whistle the tune to myself while watching my fantastic tee shot :fore:

Handy shot to have in the bag if you can play it as well as Vijay

[video=youtube;6Mzq1bm-zTw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mzq1bm-zTw[/video]

 

[rulefan]

1)
" ....to pitch marks and spike marks, about 3 inches behind the hole'

Spike mark 3" behind the hole seems to me to be something might assist the stopping of a ball which misses the hole.

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball,

Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole.

2)
When the ball came out of the water, did it cross the actual margin a of the hazard before it rolled back?

 

[atticusfinch]

Dellboy was right on both counts. These must have fallen into the 1% of the Rules this guy didn't know.

The player was not touching the line of his putt but he was in breach of Rule 16-1c by repairing the green where it might subsequently assist his play. The area just behind the hole is clearly one where a repair could be of assistance since an approach putt is likely to go beyond the hole. Repairing pitch marks there was ok, but not the spike marks.

........Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole..........[16-1c]

Whoops.

 

[Colin L]

2)
When the ball came out of the water, did it cross the actual margin a of the hazard before it rolled back?

Dellboy, Rulefan asks a vital question that I should have asked earlier.

When your ball went up the bank on the other side of the hazard, it had to exit the hazard and then come back into it i.e. go beyond the line of the stakes and then roll back. If it didn't, then the other player was correct - to an extent. The point of reference would have been where the ball crossed the nearer margin, not where it first touched the water. Also, even then you could have dropped on the further side taking as your reference the point on the margin equidistant from the hole.

 

[Dellboy]

Sorry for delay, been out losing ball all day (not my best round) but as to the question, yes it stopped outside of the red stakes then rolled back into water.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry for delay, been out losing ball all day (not my best round) but as to the question, yes it stopped outside of the red stakes then rolled back into water.

And the other question....Was there a place to drop within 2 club lengths of last point of entry that was not nearer the hole - and not in the hazard? I've seen Lines marking Lateral Hazard curving (following the shape of the water) such that a ball rolling back into the hazard couldn't be dropped within 2 club lengths of point of entry, NNTH, and not be in the hazard. In that case, back across the other side would be the only option (for the additional Lateral option). Not smart marking imo, but...

 

[Colin L]

And the other question....Was there a place to drop within 2 club lengths of last point of entry that was not nearer the hole - and not in the hazard? I've seen Lines marking Lateral Hazard curving (following the shape of the water) such that a ball rolling back into the hazard couldn't be dropped within 2 club lengths of point of entry, NNTH, and not be in the hazard. In that case, back across the other side would be the only option (for the additional Lateral option). Not smart marking imo, but...

You are such a glass half empty person.
At least Delboy's should be full when he claims a pint
from the chap he was playing with. :cheers:

 

[CMAC]

You are such a glass half empty person.
At least Delboy's should be full when he claims a pint
from the chap he was playing with. :cheers:

his glass may be half empty but his bottle is half full:cheers: