Spectator calls penalty, after end of match ?

[User20204]

The scenario is, match all square going down the last, guy hits in to bush, he climbs in, moves everything out the way, round his neck, under his legs, you get the picture.

Chaps out, makes 5, opponent makes 6. Spectator says to him after hole is finished, you can't make a stance etc etc by moving everything out the way etc etc so it was a penalty and you've lost the hole I'm afraid.

For clarity purposes, the spectator is a club official but is NOT the match referee.

So, whatever happened in the bush aside, was this a correct call against the player ?

 

[duncan mackie]

The opponent may make a timely claim.

The committee rule and when ruling must take into account all available evidence.

The end (😂)

 

[User20204]

So in fact the call was correct ? well probably eventually ?

 

[williamalex1]

Did he actually break anything , branches twigs, knock leaves off ?.

 

[robinthehood]

I thought things could bend and break if your fairly taking a stance

 

[rulefan]

I thought things could bend and break if your fairly taking a stance

 

[User20204]

I wasn't there but my understanding was he came out like Morrissey

 

[woofers]

Can I clarify that it’s only the playing partners or opponents that can make a call regarding a rules infringement? A spectator has no standing ?
I was spectating at a scratch inter club match play event last year and stood close to where a player was taking a drop from a ditch. I politely pointed out to him where the ball had crossed the margin of the hazard, and that he was currently nearer the hole. He told me to “f*** off”. His opponent didn’t come over and seemed to be trusting of the situation.
Needless to say, my impression of single figure golfers changed after this.

 

[Wilson]

Can I clarify that it’s only the playing partners or opponents that can make a call regarding a rules infringement? A spectator has no standing ?
I was spectating at a scratch inter club match play event last year and stood close to where a player was taking a drop from a ditch. I politely pointed out to him where the ball had crossed the margin of the hazard, and that he was currently nearer the hole. He told me to “f*** off”. His opponent didn’t come over and seemed to be trusting of the situation.
Needless to say, my impression of single figure golfers changed after this.

😂

 

[rulefan]

There is no prohibition in the rules on anyone telling a player that he may be about to breach a rule. Nor on telling a referee or the committee that a player has breached a rule.
Only the player (on himself), referee or committee may impose a penalty.

 

[User20204]

Only the player (on himself), referee or committee may impose a penalty.

It was a club official that raised it, although he was only a spectator at the time, so does said club official have any standing in said incident ?

 

[Colin L]

If there wasn't a referee assigned to the match, the club official should not have intervened even if he was on the committee. A player has the right to disregard his opponent's breach of a rule. A roving referee does not intervene. Nor should the official. If the player did not want to disregard a possible breach he could have raised the matter with his opponent and then made a claim if it proved necessary as already said.

If there was an assigned referee, the club official should have been mindful that the referee had presumably observed the expedition into the bush and been content that it was legal. It would have been improper to have waded in as he did.

 

[rulefan]

It was a club official that raised it, although he was only a spectator at the time, so does said club official have any standing in said incident ?

If the club official was not on, nor a representative of, the organising Committee, he is no different to any other spectator.

 

[clubchamp98]

Can I clarify that it’s only the playing partners or opponents that can make a call regarding a rules infringement? A spectator has no standing ?
I was spectating at a scratch inter club match play event last year and stood close to where a player was taking a drop from a ditch. I politely pointed out to him where the ball had crossed the margin of the hazard, and that he was currently nearer the hole. He told me to “f*** off”. His opponent didn’t come over and seemed to be trusting of the situation.
Needless to say, my impression of single figure golfers changed after this.

Really you were told off for intervention in a match and all single figure golfers are now the same as him.
Even not nice people can be good at golf!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can I clarify that it’s only the playing partners or opponents that can make a call regarding a rules infringement? A spectator has no standing ?
I was spectating at a scratch inter club match play event last year and stood close to where a player was taking a drop from a ditch. I politely pointed out to him where the ball had crossed the margin of the hazard, and that he was currently nearer the hole. He told me to “f*** off”. His opponent didn’t come over and seemed to be trusting of the situation.
Needless to say, my impression of single figure golfers changed after this.

Did You really decide that this one person gave you the same impression of all single figure golfers ?!?

 

[woofers]

Did You really decide that this one person gave you the same impression of all single figure golfers ?!?

No. It was a poorly phrased sentence.
I shouldn’t have even remarked upon this as it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic and risks a different discussion altogether.

 

[badgergm]

If there wasn't a referee assigned to the match, the club official should not have intervened even if he was on the committee. A player has the right to disregard his opponent's breach of a rule. A roving referee does not intervene. Nor should the official. If the player did not want to disregard a possible breach he could have raised the matter with his opponent and then made a claim if it proved necessary as already said.

If there was an assigned referee, the club official should have been mindful that the referee had presumably observed the expedition into the bush and been content that it was legal. It would have been improper to have waded in as he did.

My initial understanding was that the player hadn't seen the stance being taken, and hence didn't explicitly disregard the breach. Looking back, OP doesn't state either way. If it was the case that the player didn't see, then what should the spectator have done? And how would the committee likely view the evidence of a single spectator against the word of the player (assuming that the player knew the rule and argued that was fair)? Would the 'official' status come be taken into account?

 

[rulefan]

If it was the case that the player didn't see, then what should the spectator have done?

What the spectator should or shouldn't have done is irrelevant. The rules have no instructions for a spectator to follow.
The actions of the opponent or designated referee are the only actions to be concerned with.

 

[Colin L]

My initial understanding was that the player hadn't seen the stance being taken, and hence didn't explicitly disregard the breach. Looking back, OP doesn't state either way. If it was the case that the player didn't see, then what should the spectator have done? And how would the committee likely view the evidence of a single spectator against the word of the player (assuming that the player knew the rule and argued that was fair)? Would the 'official' status come be taken into account?

As far as I'm aware, no-one from a club official to someone passing by with their dog should intervene in a match. A non-assigned referee has only a very limited number of situations in which he.she can intervene and this isn't one of them . If a player chooses not to watch his opponent that's his "privilege". He is responsible for looking after his own interests. Should a spectator feel obliged to advise the player that in his view the opponent had committed a breach, the player can disregard what he has been told or take the matter up with his opponent and,if necessary, make a timeous claim. In the absence of an assigned referee, it all comes back to what the player chooses to do. If he wants to claim the hole he can do so either with a roving referee if there is one, or with the Committee. If he wants to disregard what he has been told, that's an end of the matter. If a claim is made, the evidence of the "official" has no more status than that of anyone else who observed what happened and the Committtee should only be concerned with his factual description of how the opponent backed into the bush and should disregard his conclusion that it was a breach - which is for the Committee to decide. That could require a visit to the bush - without the presence of the "spectator" - in order to have the opponent show the manner in which he backed into it.

I hope these are reasonable and correct observations. There's no doubt in my mind that the individual was entirely wrong in intervening with a "ruling" that the opponent lost the hole and that his presumption has created a messy situation for the Committee proper.

 

[rulefan]

Colin
When did you move from South Africa?