Solhiem Cup

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And as it happens I don't think this incident will make one significant iota of a difference to new players starting or the way the game of golf is perceived by non-golfers. To the latter group golf is a mysterious and curious game that is pretty impenetrable - and besides they wouldn't have been watching. And I honestly doubt very much than many - if any at all - prospective golfers would be put off from starting the game because of this. Again - until you actually play the game you don;t understand whether this matters or not. It's just one of these things they know they'll have to learn - bit like the offside rule in rugby - and also in football these days.

I have no problems at all with Petterson and Hull calling the mistake made my Lee.

 

[richart]

Just seen the after match press conference, and something seemed not right. Charley Hull says she was rushing off to Pettersen to discuss whether the putt should be given. Strange didn't see her do that before. Also strange that Pettersens caddy also rushed over, presumably to join the conversation ? No wonder golf is so slow, if you have to have a meeting to discuss giving a putt.

Koch said the putt was too long to give. Well that means a hell of a lot of putts were given by mistake over the three days. My cat Monty could have holed that putt, though he may have chased the ball round the green for a few minutes first.

Annika Sorenstam didn't seem to have a problem with it, though she was screaming blue murder when she was forced to take a chip again in a previous Solheim Cup. She played out of turn, so within the rules the Americans asked her to chip again. A little hypocritical ?:mmm:

As for Pettersen herself, she came over as very hard-nosed. No sympathy, would do the same again etc. Laura Davies was right, water off a ducks back.

Oh well, should add a bit of spice to the 2017 match.:thup:

 

[garyinderry]

As I said earlier. Lots of crossed wires.

Us excuse was, someone in the crowd said that's ok. - the crowd can't concede a putt

Hull is not beyond fault here. She was feet away from the original putt. You do not march off without telling your opponent to finish up if it is tap in range and you actually want to see her hole put. It simply isn't the done thing.

If I honestly think someone might miss their next putt I will tell them to hole out and give them the courtesy of standing where I was while finish up. I also have to get the flag.

Imagine having the balls to ask someone to putt out then run off the next tee and let them put the flag in after. :rofl:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

So have I - and I wouldn't - and manys the time I've had to ask for clarification if a putt was given or not as opponents head off to the edge of the green.

Well I hope you made all the putts then.

 

[richart]

Regularly - get myself right out of the way of my opponent.

but Hull didn't. She walked away, and would have been in Lee's line of putt if she had tried to putt straight out. Pettersens caddy was following her and would also have been in her eye line. I have never seen someone do that unless they have been cut short.

If you don't concede straight away, a player is fully entitled to putt straight out and shouldn't have to wait whilst golfers, caddies walk across their through line. Basic etiquette.

 

[3565]

It beggars belief that some on here think that if an opponent who walks away it can be classed as conceding a putt?....
Do they also think that someone saying I'll hit another is classed as taking a provisional?......

if you don't hear words of a concession then it's simple you don't pick up! Or if your unsure you ask, you don't presume! She made the mistake she should put her hands up and own it, Petterson did nothing wrong in my eyes and neither was it unsportmanship, as matchplay has an air of sportsmanship around the format.

Saw Brandell Chamblee and David Duvall on Golf Central taking about it and they Talked a lot of sense about the whole thing and said its a rookies mistake and you don't pick up unless you hear the words from the opponent.

 

[Robobum]

You've never just put the flag in and gone to the next tee? No words, just very grateful that you've escaped with a half?

Or do you make an announcement to conclude every hole?

 

[lobthewedge]

It's the 17th hole of a pivotal match, you're playing a rookie that hasn't scored a point and has just knocked it 2 foot by. She looks a bit nervy and knows the golfing world is watching her. Who on here would like to see it in?

Lee was entirely in the wrong and deserved to lose the hole. She is a pro and should know never to assume a putt has been given, even if your opponent has left the green. If in doubt, knock it in and move on. Peterson was absolutely right in what she did, just a shame the media seem to be going after her.

Well done to the Americans though, great viewing and what a comeback.

 

[LIG]

Having seen the vid (one angle only) - Pettersen is not in shot at all until after Lee picks up her ball and it appears conceivable that Hull was moving to where Pettersen was standing (to confer?). It would be normal for Petersen's caddy to go over to his player at any opportunity so no issue with him moving either; and notice that Hull's caddy makes no movement whatsoever.
I notice that Lee doesn't look for confirmation and assumes it's conceded. Whoever said the Europeans were heading to the next tee must need their eyes tested 'cos they're still on the edge of the green when they come back into shot.

The only clear indication surely is being told it's ok or you FC picking the ball up for you ?

I agree with the sentiment of LP's post. Thus I would hazard to suggest that anyone who picks their ball up after assuming it's conceded is displaying an astonishing arrogance and/or disrespect to their opponent. In a match, I wouldn't dream of picking up until CLEARLY conceded - even the one inch putts I usually have coming back. )



[On a separate issue - I find I may have been inadvertently displaying a lack of sportmaship/etiquette when moving position between putts of an oppo or FC!!! ]

 

[3565]

We are talking about what happened in the fact that Hull walked off after the putt, that is NOT a sign of concession. You can not take it for granted that a putt will be conceded no matter how far away it is, you need clarification from your opponent if your putt is good? Now a player walking with the flag and put it into the hole can be classed as conceded, but is it? Once a player announces that a putt is good or concede they can't retract it after. A player putting a pin back in the hole but then change their mind and pull it out straight away and not say anything, I'm not sure?

Some one on here will probably put me right?

But yes I will always say to my opponent if it's good, or pick it up, but walking away from the hole and you taking it as a concession.......... No.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You've never just put the flag in and gone to the next tee? No words, just very grateful that you've escaped with a half?

Or do you make an announcement to conclude every hole?

Thats a clear indication the hole is over - i normally follow that by hitting the players ball towards them or picking it up.

 

[Robobum]

That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee.

She is escaping any flak because she's a young girl/ breath of fresh air/ wouldn't harm a fly etc..........those saying that Lee is a pro and should know better are absolutely right. But they should apply that to Hull also..........she had assumed the ball was dead and should have said so and, as Inkster said.....you don't do that to your peers.

 

[Smiffy]

That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee. .....you don't do that to your peers.

Is the correct answer.
Yes, the Yank was wrong in picking the ball up, I agree. And yes Phil, she was warned a couple of times before, you have mentioned it at least a dozen times or more.
But Hull was bang out of order.
Her body language throughout the whole debacle (from beginning to end) tells me she knows she was in the wrong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee.

She is escaping any flak because she's a young girl/ breath of fresh air/ wouldn't harm a fly etc..........those saying that Lee is a pro and should know better are absolutely right. But they should apply that to Hull also..........she had assumed the ball was dead and should have said so and, as Inkster said.....you don't do that to your peers.

Hulls caddy stayed put

Hull said she was walking to Pettersen not to the tee - we have to take that at face value because anything else is speculation

Lee said that she heard a concession and she wasn't looking at Hull or even looked up to confirm any concession

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Is the correct answer.
Yes, the Yank was wrong in picking the ball up, I agree. And yes Phil, she was warned a couple of times before, you have mentioned it at least a dozen times or more.
But Hull was bang out of order.
Her body language throughout the whole debacle (from beginning to end) tells me she knows she was in the wrong.

You can't judge by the body language - Lee's PP was also moving to warn her. Lee didn't even look at Hull and picked the ball up because she heard a concession

How can Hull be bang out of order because she is moving to speak to her PP along with her PP caddy - whilst her own caddy stays where he is

 

[Slab]

Managed to watch a few hours on Friday/Saturday and overall it was pretty good viewing despite some pretty horrendous slow play

Used the French variant of the Golf Channel that I get on my tv and good that it was advert free but only in French commentary

Was playing yesterday so missed the controversy and the singles. Caught up with the highlights and news this morning and my take on it is:

• Hull would’ve given it if she was in a singles match, her interest in the hole was over after the putt was missed (whether she should have given a putt in terms of its importance is another matter) but she either bottled making the call or bottled in her discussions with Pettersen
• Pettersen was rightly miffed at the multiple instances of early pick up and ignored warnings and was right to escalate matters on this occasion but should’ve been clearer to Hull about her intentions such that Hull wouldn’t have reacted the way she did in the seconds following the putt, not good putting the rookie in that position
• Lee didn’t learn from her earlier warnings but probably has now and doubt she’ll make that error again. And it was an error of that there’s no doubt

Although the main fault lies with Koch as Europe captain. She should’ve been the one to take better control and management of the situation such that it didn’t unduly affect the players on either team. Pettersen would’ve still made her point to Lee, Lee finally sees the error of her ways. Hull learns more about her actions as a full partner (even non verbal ones)

That aside I’ll think it’ll add some spice to the next events (and I include the next Ryder cup in that)

 

[Smiffy]

How can Hull be bang out of order because she is moving to speak to her PP along with her PP caddy - whilst her own caddy stays where he is

Phil. It doesn't matter if her own caddy stayed there doing handstands or body popping.
Hull moved away in such a manner as to indicate she was conceding the putt.
She is saying that she walked away to speak to her PP.
She had then had time to think about her actions.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil. It doesn't matter if her own caddy stayed there doing handstands or body popping.
Hull moved away in such a manner as to indicate she was conceding the putt.
She is saying that she walked away to speak to her PP.
She had then had time to think about her actions.

But Lee didn't think the putt was conceded because of the actions of Hull - she wasn't looking at Hull - she picked the ball up because she believed she had heard a concession - what Hull was doing wasnt the reason for Lee to pick up the ball.

Both Europeans were still on the green when the ball was picked and neither have verbal or confirmed visual indication that the putt was given. A ref was there and when speaking to the players confirmed that no concession was given.

So is Lee lying about hearing a concession ?

If Hull lying about going to see Pettersen ?

 

[garyinderry]

But Lee didn't think the putt was conceded because of the actions of Hull - she wasn't looking at Hull - she picked the ball up because she believed she had heard a concession - what Hull was doing wasnt the reason for Lee to pick up the ball.

Both Europeans were still on the green when the ball was picked and neither have verbal or confirmed visual indication that the putt was given. A ref was there and when speaking to the players confirmed that no concession was given.

So is Lee lying about hearing a concession ?

If Hull lying about going to see Pettersen ?

Why would you walk 50feet to ask your partner if she would like to see it in. What a complete waste of time and effort. I firmly believe she hadn't that intention at all. She was hanging to go as lee stood over her putt.

Her tears and arms folded during the media questioning reeks of guilt. deflecting towards the rules are rules is bullwhip lets get this story straight girls bullcrap imo.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why would you walk 50feet to ask your partner if she would like to see it in. What a complete waste of time and effort. I firmly believe she hadn't that intention at all. She was hanging to go as lee stood over her putt.

Her tears and arms folded during the media questioning reeks of guilt. deflecting towards the rules are rules is bullwhip lets get this story straight girls bullcrap imo.

Again no verbal concession was given by the Europeans

And you can only go by what the girls have said as opposed to judging intentions