Solhiem Cup

[Deleted member 15344]

I've read all the comments and have looked several times at the recording and my viewpoint has changed.

When I first looked at the video I thought "badly done" by Europe but after reading all the posts and looking several times at it here's my revised take.

First off I think it important that Lee had been warned more than once previously about picking up before a concession, this would piss me off in a match and I might start to follow the rules to the letter.

Secondly, yes Charlie Hull started to walk away but Lee didn't really look directly towards her to confirm the concession, she might have caught the movement out of the corner of her eye but as many have said, she assumed, even Lincicome got this fact and tried to intervene but too late.

Thirdly, we do not see Petersen until after the main event so I can't say how close she was but she would appear to have been at the edge of the green, a perfectly adequate place to stand to watch the first putt. From her viewpoint Lee's second putt may have looked further than the reported 18 inches and she was perfectly justified in not conceding.


I do have one question that I don't know the answer to though and for me the sportsmanship thing rides on this.
As I don't have Sky I haven't seen any more of the match than this one incident but was Pettersen taking the lead in concessions as the senior partner or were both Europeans giving putts?

If Pettersen was taking the lead then I think Europe are absolutely justified in their actions in view of my third comment above.
If both were offering concessions then Lee was still in the wrong and it's down to the European team to act how they see fit and that's their call, USA have no comeback whatever Europe decide.

I think you sum it up very well Nick and thats my exact viewpoint.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seems the ref was very clear of the situation.

After speaking to all the players - its very possible that the ref called it a half and that then allowed Lee to pick up the ball ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.

Why would it sicken you? Seems an over reaction. The Solheim Cup has had controversy before. Remember the Sorenstam incident?. In fact here are five http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9967886/five-flashpoints-from It's a highly charged event and to be honest I was more upset that Lee had seemed to go for her marker before a definite concession on more than one occasion before this

 

[Sweep]

I think that what has happened here is that everyone is completely focussed on the first putt to win the hole at a crucial point in the game. When it misses Hull is relieved to be level and walks away quite innocently as she must have thought a miss meant the hole was halved and not even thinking the Europeans might win the hole. You certainly wouldn't expect a 3 putt from the region of 12 feet at this level. I think the Americans probably were focussed on the first putt in the same way too and Lee ( wrongly) probably never thought about having to make the return. Only Pettersen was thinking otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.

The difference is they are playing for something a bit higher profile and remember - twice the player was warned and each time the Europeans let the discretion go - where do you draw the line. As for sickening and cheering the Americans on ?!?

 

[AmandaJR]

Having watched it again, Lee puts her hand to her visor which I can only assume is to remove the magnetic ball marker she has on it?? So at that moment she expected to mark it...not sure why she didn't as she doesn't seem to look at Hull or Pettersen.

I've changed from thinking Suzanne was out of order to thinking she'd simply had enough of an opponent's disregard of the rules despite being told. Her whole body language with hand gestures suggests "no, enough - our hole"!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think that what has happened here is that everyone is completely focussed on the first putt to win the hole at a crucial point in the game. When it misses Hull is relieved to be level and walks away quite innocently as she must have thought a miss meant the hole was halved and not even thinking the Europeans might win the hole. You certainly wouldn't expect a 3 putt from the region of 12 feet at this level. I think the Americans probably were focussed on the first putt in the same way too and Lee ( wrongly) probably never thought about having to make the return. Only Pettersen was thinking otherwise.

I agree. It's never given until it's given and why not make Lee hole out at a crucial stage. Pettersen seemed the only one switched on to how it would impact the match

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Having watched it again, Lee puts her hand to her visor which I can only assume is to remove the magnetic ball marker she has on it?? So at that moment she expected to mark it...not sure why she didn't as she doesn't seem to look at Hull or Pettersen.

I've changed from thinking Suzanne was out of order to thinking she'd simply had enough of an opponent's disregard of the rules despite being told. Her whole body language with hand gestures suggests "no, enough - our hole"!

I think its because the ref called it a half or she heard someone say its good ? thats what she has said - nothing about the movement of Hull etc

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.

Forgetting the Solhiem Cup for a moment, I'm confused about your semi final, as much as I admire your sportsmanship, you can't tell him not to worry about it, you can't pick and choose which rules you implement and which you don't, why didn't you concede the next hole and give him a hole back if you felt that bad.

 

[Dan2501]

I don't get why she didn't at least ask if it was given? Not anything wrong with asking for clarification, and nothing was said to her, and Charley moving means very little. If nothing has been said, you don't pick it up. Simple.

 

[wrighty1874]

Why would it sicken you? Seems an over reaction. The Solheim Cup has had controversy before. Remember the Sorenstam incident?. In fact here are five http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9967886/five-flashpoints-from It's a highly charged event and to be honest I was more upset that Lee had seemed to go for her marker before a definite concession on more than one occasion before this

I'm fiercely competitive and hate losing, but what I saw today was lower than a snakes belly.When America ordered Annexe to replay her shot I was delighted when Europe won to shove it right up them.

 

[wrighty1874]

Forgetting the Solhiem Cup for a moment, I'm confused about your semi final, as much as I admire your sportsmanship, you can't tell him not to worry about it, you can't pick and choose which rules you implement and which you don't, why didn't you concede the next hole and give him a hole back if you felt that bad.

I never sad I felt bad about it.I told him not to worry.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I never sad I felt bad about it.I told him not to worry.

And replay the shot?

 

[Kellfire]

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.

You should have made him rehit if it was a good drive.

You committed no penalty if your ball only oscillated.

The two events don't cancel each other out as only one was due a penalty.

 

[JezzE]

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.

FYI, you couldn't have claimed the hole in the first example as there is no penalty for playing outside the teeing ground in matchplay, although you could have asked him to replay the shot if you'd so desired

 

[bladeplayer]

And replay the shot?

You don't have to in match play , its up to u .. different in strokes /stableford etc

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Putt wasn't conceded. US player broke a rule.

Cut and dry. Right?

Clearly not otherwise the situation would never have arisen.

 

[Kellfire]

Clearly not otherwise the situation would never have arisen.

Nope sorry it was that cut and dry.

 

[bladeplayer]

FYI, you couldn't have claimed the hole in the first example as there is no penalty for playing outside the teeing ground in matchplay, although you could have asked him to replay the shot if you'd so desired

What did you make of it Jezz ?

Well within the rules as no concession but sometimes theres a right & wrong way to do things ..

Do you think it was called due to the fact she ha done it twice earlier & been warned

 

[richart]

Had anyone else warmed Lee before during the Solheim Cup, or was it just Pettersen that warned her ? Most opponents are quick to concede a very short putt, but I have a feeling that Pettersen likes to take her time, and make the opponent wait. I think this is what Lee's partner warned her about. You shouldn't ask if a putt is ok, it is up to the opponent to say it is good.

Gamesmanship ? Seasoned pro certainly caught a rookie out. Didn't surprise me that Pettersen was involved. The look on Hull's face as they walked off after the hole had been given to them showed her feelings.