Social Media Use

[Slippy]

Whilst playing a recent medal in very challenging windy conditions, one of my playing partners was checking the social media updates of a golfer a few holes ahead of us, who was giving shot and club selection details. e.g. 'on the 13th par 3, 146 yards, I had to hit a 5 iron and still ended up short...'.
Now giving/seeking that info with your playing partners is clearly against the rules but is there any provision in the rules regarding social/electronic communication?
I guess given the conditions may change by the time we reached the hole there is no issue, however, if we were immediately behind that group then could an advantage could be gained?

 

[rulefan]

The following Clarification may help.

Advice/3 –When Statements That Include Public Information Are Advice​

Statements of public information may be given without penalty. But it is advice when the statement also contains information intended to influence a player in choosing a club, making a stroke or deciding how to play during a hole or round.

Examples of statements that are not advice include:

• “The penalty area is 5 yards short of the front edge of the green.”
• “The wind is blowing from the west, which means that on this hole the wind is blowing from the right.”

Examples of statements that are advice include:

• The penalty area is 5 yards short of the front edge of the green, so you may want to use enough club to make sure you carry the ball to the middle of the green.”
• “The wind is behind us on this hole, so be sure to land the ball short of the green.”

 

[Steven Rules]

Now giving/seeking that info with your playing partners is clearly against the rules but is there any provision in the rules regarding social/electronic communication?

Nothing in the definition of advice constrains its applicability to the same playing group. On the contrary, 10.2a says that during a round, a player must not give advice to anyone in the competition who is playing on the course, or ask anyone for advice, other than the player’s caddie.

There is nothing specific in there about electronic or social media communication in the manner you describe.

10.2a/2 says that a player must try to stop ongoing advice that is given voluntarily. If a player gets advice from someone other than their caddie (such as a spectator) without asking for it, they get no penalty. However, if the player continues to get advice from that same person, the player must try to stop that person from giving advice. If the player does not do so, they are treated as asking for that advice and get the penalty under Rule 10.2a.

My view is:

* If the sender is providing information with the intent to help others on the course - guilty.

• If the receiver is deliberately seeking the information out while playing on the course - guilty.

In addition, I'd be looking closely at whether the players are complying with the club's policy on telephone usage on the course. This would be a disciplinary matter rather than a Rules matter, unless there is an applicable code of conduct in place.

 

[Slippy]

Nothing in the definition of advice constrains its applicability to the same playing group. On the contrary, 10.2a says that during a round, a player must not give advice to anyone in the competition who is playing on the course, or ask anyone for advice, other than the player’s caddie.

There is nothing specific in there about electronic or social media communication in the manner you describe.

10.2a/2 says that a player must try to stop ongoing advice that is given voluntarily. If a player gets advice from someone other than their caddie (such as a spectator) without asking for it, they get no penalty. However, if the player continues to get advice from that same person, the player must try to stop that person from giving advice. If the player does not do so, they are treated as asking for that advice and get the penalty under Rule 10.2a.

My view is:

* If the sender is providing information with the intent to help others on the course - guilty.

• If the receiver is deliberately seeking the information out while playing on the course - guilty.

In addition, I'd be looking closely at whether the players are complying with the club's policy on telephone usage on the course. This would be a disciplinary matter rather than a Rules matter, unless there is an applicable code of conduct in place.

Thanks for the reply.
It's interesting in this world of social media where some people have to describe their every move that the information may be given to followers as part of that 'lifestyle', rather than with the intent to help others on the course.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm trying to figure out what type of person posts about every shot they take on their course during a competition, and what type of person would be interested in reading it. Even to the biggest golf nut, that sounds dull as dishwater.

Also, writing up a little story about how you played each shot is bound to take some time. I'd be looking to see how quickly that group is playing. I bet the guys he plays with love him....very sociable (the irony being he is posting on "social" media)

 

[DeanoMK]

I'm trying to figure out what type of person posts about every shot they take on their course during a competition, and what type of person would be interested in reading it. Even to the biggest golf nut, that sounds dull as dishwater.

Also, writing up a little story about how you played each shot is bound to take some time. I'd be looking to see how quickly that group is playing. I bet the guys he plays with love him....very sociable (the irony being he is posting on "social" media)

My thoughts exactly, that's the most random, and sad thing I've heard in a while.

 

[salfordlad]

Interesting scenario, thank you for bringing it up.

There is a clear answer in the Rule book for the person accessing this information. The player using a personal device to access this current playing information during the round that may help the player in choosing a club, making a stroke or deciding how to play is in breach of 4.3a(4). First occasion is a general penalty, second time is DQ.

Things are a little less clear for the person posting the information. They are, literally, broadcasting some current playing information to anyone that is interested in accessing it. As Steven notes, rule 10.2 may or may not get you to a penalty for this person. The person may claim they have no intent to influence anyone (they are just entertaining their 'friends') but IMO a Committee can say we don't accept that, you need to stop during the round or we will treat it as intent to influence others. Rule 5.6 relating to unreasonable delay of play, also, may or may not arise.

 

[Slab]

Interesting scenario, thank you for bringing it up.

There is a clear answer in the Rule book for the person accessing this information. The player using a personal device to access this current playing information during the round that may help the player in choosing a club, making a stroke or deciding how to play is in breach of 4.3a(4). First occasion is a general penalty, second time is DQ.

Things are a little less clear for the person posting the information. They are, literally, broadcasting some current playing information to anyone that is interested in accessing it. As Steven notes, rule 10.2 may or may not get you to a penalty for this person. The person may claim they have no intent to influence anyone (they are just entertaining their 'friends') but IMO a Committee can say we don't accept that, you need to stop during the round or we will treat it as intent to influence others. Rule 5.6 relating to unreasonable delay of play, also, may or may not arise.

It is an interesting scenario, re bold. Don't the tv companies do this same thing with their live broadcast and don't tour Pros playing in the PM watch TV feed of the AM groups?

 

[Colin L]

It is an interesting scenario, re bold. Don't the tv companies do this same thing with their live broadcast and don't tour Pros playing in the PM watch TV feed of the AM groups?

Remember that the rules on use of equipment and giving or asking for advice apply only during a round.

 

[Neilds]

It is an interesting scenario, re bold. Don't the tv companies do this same thing with their live broadcast and don't tour Pros playing in the PM watch TV feed of the AM groups?

As I mentioned before in a similar thread, if pros need to check what clubs others are using to try and work out how far to hit it, maybe they shouldn’t be on the tour. They know exactly how far they hit each club off every type of grass and don’t need to check other players

 

[Swango1980]

As I mentioned before in a similar thread, if pros need to check what clubs others are using to try and work out how far to hit it, maybe they shouldn’t be on the tour. They know exactly how far they hit each club off every type of grass and don’t need to check other players

The commentators often mention it is useful for pros teeing off later if they have seen what happened before. For example, many players before coming up short because of a wind. Or a surprising break on a green, where everyone is missing to one side.

I can't imagine it happens often, but I guess a players caddy might include watching early footage sometimes as part of their prep

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I guess the difference would be, the player themselves is not giving the advice. And the caddy/tour pro watching is not asking for the advice.

DQ the on course reporter instead!

 

[salfordlad]

It is an interesting scenario, re bold. Don't the tv companies do this same thing with their live broadcast and don't tour Pros playing in the PM watch TV feed of the AM groups?

Good question, one that RBs have considered and made a call on - a call I embedded in my previous response: the players cannot access such broadcasts during their round on a personal device. Accessing the broadcast during their round via a public video scoreboard is fine or outside their round on any device. So I have updated my book, annotating the second double arrow point of 4.3a(4) under 'Not Allowed' with "not on a personal device". Unfortunately, we do not have the capacity (yet?) to make annotations on the Apps.

 

[Colin L]

I guess the difference would be, the player themselves is not giving the advice. And the caddy/tour pro watching is not asking for the advice.

DQ the on course reporter instead!

Did you read my comment in post #9? The rules about giving /asking for advice and about the use of equipment apply only during a round.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm trying to figure out what type of person posts about every shot they take on their course during a competition, and what type of person would be interested in reading it. Even to the biggest golf nut, that sounds dull as dishwater.

Also, writing up a little story about how you played each shot is bound to take some time. I'd be looking to see how quickly that group is playing. I bet the guys he plays with love him....very sociable (the irony being he is posting on "social" media)

The sort of person who wants to provide information to a buddy playing in a group behind; and the sort of person seeking advice from a mate playing ahead - both players intent on improving the chances of the second player. In other words - well one - Cheats. Cheating by them and totally unacceptable big time - never mind against the rules.

 

[Swango1980]

The sort of person who wants to provide information to a buddy playing in a group behind; and the sort of person seeking advice from a mate playing ahead - both players intent on improving the chances of the second player. In other words - well one - Cheats. Cheating by them and totally unacceptable big time - never mind against the rules.

I'd agree, that is the most "respectable" explanation, as the alternative they come out looking a bit sad and pathetic

Although, even if they are truly cheating, I still don't really get how it will help much at all, especially at club level. The first guy gets no benefit at all, except being a guinea pig. The second guy MIGHT get a little help, on a par 3 for example. Yet, he still has to execute the shot, which might be inconsistent depending on his level. Other holes, not so sure. Just seems like a hell of a lot of effort for little reward

 

[jim8flog]

In addition, I'd be looking closely at whether the players are complying with the club's policy on telephone usage on the course. This would be a disciplinary matter rather than a Rules matter, unless there is an applicable code of conduct in place.

This is important where I play it would infringe our club rules re mobile phones but there again one wonders how many players read the clubs handbook which contains such rules seeing many other club rules that get broken on a regularly basis e.g. taking trolleys on to the green surrounds.

 

[IanM]

I'm trying to figure out what type of person posts about every shot they take on their course during a competition, and what type of person would be interested in reading it.

I think you know the answer to that question, but positing the description would be a seven day ban!

 

[Slippy]

I'm trying to figure out what type of person posts about every shot they take on their course during a competition, and what type of person would be interested in reading it. Even to the biggest golf nut, that sounds dull as dishwater.

Also, writing up a little story about how you played each shot is bound to take some time. I'd be looking to see how quickly that group is playing. I bet the guys he plays with love him....very sociable (the irony being he is posting on "social" media)

I don't really get it either, but in fairness, if you are a +hcp golfer, have plenty of followers and tag a big manufacturer or two, they will potentially offer freebies, competition 'wins' etc. Instagram golf 'influencer'.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't really get it either, but in fairness, if you are a +hcp golfer, have plenty of followers and tag a big manufacturer or two, they will potentially offer freebies, competition 'wins' etc. Instagram golf 'influencer'.

I was assuming the golfer in the example given wasn't Rick Shiels to be fair